MA for young Tommi

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:57 am

Ancient wrote:
Ancient wrote:Dear Geoffda and Cheesehead,

thanks for your precious tips, I'll try to understand from Tommi's instructor if he's correcting the same incorrect movements, nevertheless I presume there can be also some differences in the skiing technique he's teaching.
I'll let you know.

Cheers.

Ancient


I checked with Tommi's instructor and probably the main difference with PMTS technique is the release and flexing of the stance ski onto the new edges, as far as CA and CB are concerned I don't see big differences.

Here there is a video of Tommi (second skier in the race track) together with his big brother Andre (10 yo) for whom an MA is also appreciated:



Cheers.

Ancient



I add a sequence of Andre turning where I see some goods movements in terms of inside hand leading, and counteracting; maybe there could have been a better LTE tipping: what's your opinion?



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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby MonsterMan » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:56 pm

I checked with Tommi's instructor and probably the main difference with PMTS technique is the release and flexing of the stance ski onto the new edges,


what do you want from pmts Ancient?

You are wasting your time if you don't flex to release.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby geoffda » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:53 am

Monsterman beat me to it. If you aren't flexing to release, you aren't tipping, so none of the other movements matter that much. Go watch Marcel Hirscher ski and then ask Tommi's coach why he isn't teaching his kids to flexing to release and engage. Harald has some good photos on his blog: http://harbskisysems.blogspot.com/. Pushing or extending to new edges doesn't cut it. It just isn't fast enough edge-to-edge. The guys that ski that way eventually get crushed because at some point, they will just be hanging on. The guys that are able to flex to release can get whatever edge angle they want, when they want it. They carve and hold earlier than the others and they can take whatever line they want. If you want Tommi to be the best skier he can be, look to the best skiers in the world for your model (and look to coaches who understand what the best skiers are doing).
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby rwd » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:54 pm

Ancient,

While you're on Harald's Blog, look at the entry for Tuesday Jan. 15, of a 7 year old racer, coached with PMTS, and compare to your sons. Your sons obviously have a lot of talent; why not give them the skills they need.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:45 am

Recent improvements by Tommi:



is there much to work on?

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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:24 am

Ancient wrote:is there much to work on?

Ancient


Yes. Tipping and flexing... As others have mentioned.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 am

Also balance over the outside ski and free foot management.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 am

Tommi on a race course:



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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:41 am

Max_501 wrote:Also balance over the outside ski and free foot management.


The balance over the outside ski seems improved to me:

from "38 to min. 1,05:



What's your opinion?

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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby MonsterMan » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:57 pm

Different to yours.

see previous comments from Max501. Free foot management is required to ski balanced over the stance ski.

Maybe you are on the wrong forum?

Does Warren Smith still market himself? Maybe that type of skiing would be more suited to what your coaches are telling you.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Kiwi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:54 am

Ancient

It is clear there is a lack of appreciation for the movement patterns successful racers and expert skiers use by those coaching Tommi. Tommies deficient movement patterns are much more pronounced in the later video clips and will soon be ingrained bad habits. Eg the inside leg is being extended more vigorously to initiate transition in later clips, witnessed by a visible popping up of the skier, rather than the recommended flex of the outside leg to release as epoused here and used by world cup racers. This is one of a number of fundamental deficiencies referred to by various members above. Ie Tommi is not improving quite the contrary.

Least we become frustrated and you disappointed, may I suggest you take the time to review the material recommended by the experienced forum members. It is unreasonable to post requests for MA when the advice given on this forum is either being ignored or misunderstood. I appreciate you are seeking some kind of endorsement of Tommi's skiing and what you are being offered is sound and well intentioned advice, however, you first need to understand, accept and act on the advice.

This is harsh comment, but Tommi and you both work too hard at his skiing not to get it to the expert level.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 11:46 am

Ancient wrote:The balance over the outside ski seems improved to me:

What's your opinion?


Balance is over the inside ski in the video clip.
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby CRM.OZ » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:33 am

Hello Ancient,

I would like to add to Max 501's comment that all skiers depicted in the video have far too much weight on the inside ski, my estimate is that Tommi and the others
have equal weight on both skis or worse more weight on the inside than the outside. This is what Harald calls inside leg steering.
If you slow the video down you will see that the inside ski is weighted and carving and the outside ski is "going for the ride" - divergent tips (open V shape) are also a tell tale sign
of too much weight on the inside ski and that the turn has been initiated by the inside ski.

It would be interesting to see if any of the kids in the video could lift the inside ski off the snow after transitioning to the new edges and ride out the turn on the outside ski only -

You might be frustrated with these comments but all of the comments here on Tommi's skiing are completely accurate and valid.

Refer to Harald's books and video's for conformation.

Good Luck
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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:16 am

I'm imagining there is still no improvements according to PMTS standards:



But here in Italy it's not that easy to introduce in my kid ski training the distinctive elements of PMTS, although I think Tommi's skiing technique is not such a bad one.

Cheers and thanks for all your advise.

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Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby deicreo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:48 am

CRM.OZ wrote
If you slow the video down you will see that the inside ski is weighted and carving and the outside ski is "going for the ride" - divergent tips (open V shape) are also a tell tale sign
of too much weight on the inside ski and that the turn has been initiated by the inside ski.


There is some misconception in that statement. The second part seems to not comply with PMTS terminology.

- the divergent tips often appears when you tip the inside ski first and also it indicates that you hold the inside ski against the heel of the stance ski ( easy to observe when you learn tipping)
- you can not tip weighted inside ski thus how can he initiate the turn by inside ski, there must be sth else going on
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