MA for young Tommi

[Ancient]

I have to ask, have you even read any of HH's books, watched the DVD's or even read his blog? If you had, you wouldn't have started this thread..there is a photo on HH's blog of a 7yr old running a 'stubby' slalom course looking like a World Cup skier. That is how your son should/ would ski like if you were serious about progressing him as a skier. The advantage is that it will take your skiing to a higher level AND improve your own MA and appreciation for the dedication/ devotion it takes to master the movements of PMTS skiing. Don't waste your, your sons or anybody else's time with playing around with Pmts....do it properly and get stuck in...

I said it already: no books read, but read the blog and whatched videos; notwhistanding I like and appreciate PMTS Skiing; is this a free forum from where I can get stuck in o is it only for self reference "initiates"; furthermore it doesn't seem to me that Tommi is skiing that bad not to deserve to try to improve further.
I swear I'll try to find the time among working, caring the family to read the books and to teach the method to my kids respecting anyway the job their coaches are doing.

In the meantime, cheers and thank again to everybody.

Ancient

[Max_501]

This forum is mainly to support students of PMTS. Step one to become a student is reading and working through the exercises in Book 1 or attending a PMTS camp.

Harald's blog and youtube clips are very valuable additions to the PMTS system but they do not replace the books and DVDs.

IMO highly motivated students will own all of the books here:

https://www.harbskisystems.com/index.ph ... Itemid=102

and all of the videos here:

https://www.harbskisystems.com/index.ph ... Itemid=102

[RRT]

https://www.harbskisystems.com/index.ph ... Itemid=102[/quote]

I have to ask, have you even read any of HH's books, watched the DVD's or even read his blog? If you had, you wouldn't have started this thread..there is a photo on HH's blog of a 7yr old running a 'stubby' slalom course looking like a World Cup skier. That is how your son should/ would ski like if you were serious about progressing him as a skier. The advantage is that it will take your skiing to a higher level AND improve your own MA and appreciation for the dedication/ devotion it takes to master the movements of PMTS skiing. Don't waste your, your sons or anybody else's time with playing around with Pmts....do it properly and get stuck in...

I said it already: no books read, but read the blog and whatched videos; notwhistanding I like and appreciate PMTS Skiing; is this a free forum from where I can get stuck in o is it only for self reference "initiates"; furthermore it doesn't seem to me that Tommi is skiing that bad not to deserve to try to improve further.
I swear I'll try to find the time among working, caring the family to read the books and to teach the method to my kids respecting anyway the job their coaches are doing.

In the meantime, cheers and thank again to everybody.

Ancient

I get the impression that, sometimes, people who come to the forum to seek help feel they are getting insulted if they are not a full fledged 100% committed devotee. This place is not for cheerleading and that is clear. Further, I can't disagree with anything Max_501 has suggested here and have done all including camp. PMTS movements become more clear to me each time I review and use all three learning modes, visual, aural and kinesthetic. Yet, I know that there are very good PMTS skiers out there who have not read all the books or kept up with the forum or the blogs or viewed all the videos. PMTS is a difficult system to learn with a very long and difficult learning curve. Outside of having the advantage of skilled and experienced PMTS coaching on a regular basis, it does require devotees to be able to intergrate the 3 basic styles of learning in order to even come close to success. Because of that very fact, it will not be for everyone and may suffer because of its own weight despite its overall brillance and I truly mean brilliant. It seems to me that there needs to be a happy medium between hanging tough with responses and keeping those even partially interested coming back if there is to be long term overall success of the PMTS system. Criticism, yes, insults, no.

[HeluvaSkier]

It seems to me that there needs to be a happy medium between hanging tough with responses and keeping those even partially interested coming back if there is to be long term overall success of the PMTS system. Criticism, yes, insults, no.

RRT,
We aren't talking about a weekend warrior here. We are talking about a young athlete who appears to actually have a potentially bright future in the sport. When dealing with athletes, if you take a middle of the road approach you will get middle of the road results. End of story. I don't think Ancient or Tommi want mediocre results.

The real question at hand here, is how dedicated to LEARNING is the COACH? To be blunt, so far little effort has been put into learning on the coach's part.

This is like a university student showing up to class the first day and expecting an A without opening, or even owning, the text book. The student who puts in no effort to learn the material and produces no results is not going to be able to discuss the subject with the professor on any level... nor will the professor waste their time attempting it.

[RRT]

It seems to me that there needs to be a happy medium between hanging tough with responses and keeping those even partially interested coming back if there is to be long term overall success of the PMTS system. Criticism, yes, insults, no.

RRT,
We aren't talking about a weekend warrior here. We are talking about a young athlete who appears to actually have a potentially bright future in the sport. When dealing with athletes, if you take a middle of the road approach you will get middle of the road results. End of story. I don't think Ancient or Tommi want mediocre results.

The real question at hand here, is how dedicated to LEARNING is the COACH? To be blunt, so far little effort has been put into learning on the coach's part.

This is like a university student showing up to class the first day and expecting an A without opening, or even owning, the text book. The student who puts in no effort to learn the material and produces no results is not going to be able to discuss the subject with the professor on any level... nor will the professor waste their time attempting it.

Nicely said, much more nicely said than using insults to get a point across. But, if PMTS is to work for everyone, it just might take time, lots of time to get across the importance of a multi-sensory approach, i.e., the reading, the seeing, the listening and the doing, not to mention the undoing. Most naturally gravitate to the doing. It's human nature and it's just so much easier when it works that way. I understand the professor's frustration with the lack of coach/student effort/involvement at this point. Kudos to those who keep trying. Their effort may work to produce not just a great skier but great PMTS skier someday. In the meantime, let's be blunt without being mean spirited.

Thanks for your response HeluvaSkier.

[go_large_or_go_home]

In the meantime, let's be blunt without being mean spirited.

If this is aimed at my comment, I apologise if it didn't read well. No insults were meant. My point was/ still is this - don't waste anymore time delaying your journey into PMTS. It requires a complete rebuild of your skiing, and your dedication will determine your rate of progress. Young Tommi is likely to pick it up much quicker than dad, but it is dad who will need to do the driving.

Believe me, once you take the leap - and I mean a proper leap, ALL the comments in this thread/ forum will become crystal clear, and you will wish you had started years earlier...

[jbotti]

I get the impression that, sometimes, people who come to the forum to seek help feel they are getting insulted if they are not a full fledged 100% committed devotee. This place is not for cheerleading and that is clear. Further, I can't disagree with anything Max_501 has suggested here and have done all including camp. PMTS movements become more clear to me each time I review and use all three learning modes, visual, aural and kinesthetic. Yet, I know that there are very good PMTS skiers out there who have not read all the books or kept up with the forum or the blogs or viewed all the videos. PMTS is a difficult system to learn with a very long and difficult learning curve. Outside of having the advantage of skilled and experienced PMTS coaching on a regular basis, it does require devotees to be able to intergrate the 3 basic styles of learning in order to even come close to success. Because of that very fact, it will not be for everyone and may suffer because of its own weight despite its overall brillance and I truly mean brilliant. It seems to me that there needs to be a happy medium between hanging tough with responses and keeping those even partially interested coming back if there is to be long term overall success of the PMTS system. Criticism, yes, insults, no.

I take complete responsibility for giving guys like Ancient a hard time. 2 years ago he asked the same questions, got the same response, was told get book one and start form the beginning. It's now two years later, he's being told the same, yet he still doesn't own book one and clearly hasn't read it. Yes, he deserves a big Come on Man!! This is pitiful. People give their time for free and truly try to help. But when someone doesn't do the most basic, rudimentary steps to move the learning process along they deserve some amount of wrath. If that includes insults so be it.

This site and some of the people posting on it (for free) provide the best ski instruction available anywhere. The site is for those that want to learn and progress. When it's cleat that someone won't even do the bare minimum, it is very clear that we are wasting our time. There is no room for "a happy medium" when this occurs.

[Max_501]

RRT, I will give you another point of view on this matter. Many here have spent countless hours mastering the PMTS movements and a healthy chunk of change on private lessons, camps, alignment, and the PMTS materials. In addition a couple of us have gone farther, putting in the extra study and practice time to pass the PMTS coaching accreditation. We offer our time here for free as a service to motivated PMTS students.

Now let's take Ancient's case. He is asking for free MA, yet again, without taking step 1 to learn the most basic movements of PMTS. This has been going on for years.

You are implying that folks here are being too hard on Ancient, but if anything he is lucky to have received free MA and specific instructional advice from at least two PMTS coaches, one high level race coach, and a few very experienced PMTS skiers! All that input for free and he hasn't taken the time to read one book so he has a grasp of the most basic fundamentals of PMTS?

COME ON MAN!

[go_large_or_go_home]

Ancient wrote:read the books and to teach the method to my kids respecting anyway the job their coaches are doing.

Don't bother with respecting their coaches, If you actually followed advice given, you would be more advanced than their coaches. Trust me/ us on this....
The DVDs can be downloaded for $9.00 each and you can now get both books as ebooks....you will literally kick yourself that you didn't start earlier....no excuses and no more procrastinating please..

[RRT]

RRT, I will give you another point of view on this matter. Many here have spent countless hours mastering the PMTS movements and a healthy chunk of change on private lessons, camps, alignment, and the PMTS materials. In addition a couple of us have gone farther, putting in the extra study and practice time to pass the PMTS coaching accreditation. We offer our time here for free as a service to motivated PMTS students.

Now let's take Ancient's case. He is asking for free MA, yet again, without taking step 1 to learn the most basic movements of PMTS. This has been going on for years.

You are implying that folks here are being too hard on Ancient, but if anything he is lucky to have received free MA and specific instructional advice from at least two PMTS coaches, one high level race coach, and a few very experienced PMTS skiers! All that input for free and he hasn't taken the time to read one book so he has a grasp of the most basic fundamentals of PMTS?

COME ON MAN!

Max,
Here is my final attempt. First, FYI, I read and reread the books, watch the videos over and over, check the blog and forum daily, have attended my first camp and plan on private lessons next season. I ski 3-5 days per week (not whole days as per the thread on the fallacy of skiing the whole day) focusing on PMTS. So, I get what's going on. I mentioned in person to Harald how much I appreciated and valued your input.The one area that is troubling to me within all of PMTS is the forum. Despite all the excellent discussions and suggestions on specific technique, the forum is sometimes troubling to read. For example, it's not just Ancient's case and I don't think folks are "too hard" on Ancient. I understand there is frustration but I don't see what purpose is served or what end is accomplished in berating those who don't get it or can't get themselves to the point of satisfying those who try to contribute to their well being. If one is willingly giving of their time, then, in a sense, it becomes their "job" to be tolerant of all that comes with the volunteer effort. Otherwise, why do it in the first place?
Thanks

[Max_501]

RRT, you seem to have missed a very important part of my prior post.

We offer our time here for free as a service to motivated PMTS students.

[Ancient]

Just bought on line from Harbskysystems Expert Skier 1 Combo.

[go_large_or_go_home]

Great stuff.. Next step - build a slant board and start running through the slant board video exercises on youtube...Pre/ during or post season, it doesn't matter. The sooner you can get on the slant board the better. You will find them difficult, challenging and almost impossible to start with as you re-learn balance....

[Ancient]

Received the book and the dvd; started reading and watching and I must admit that I started to analyse better my kids' videos getting a different impression from the past on how they are balancing on the inside ski.

Learning is going on...

Ancient

[A.L.E]