MA for young Tommi

[Max_501]

Great post Heluva.

Ancient, please take the time to study the following material.

Glossary of PMTS Terms.

Harald has uploaded many videos that provide an excellent introduction to PMTS.

PMTS - Phantom Move

PMTS - Essentials

PMTS - Movements for Advancing Students

PMTS - Mastering the Two Footed Release

PMTS - Dryland Training with a Slantboard

And this thread has some good information for racers: Let pressure come to you, don't create pressure

[jclayton]

Max , I see an improvement in tipping but still more room for it . Helluva elaborated very well , as usual , in his admirable response .

Ancient , unlike most of us students , Max and Helluva have spent a lot of time putting PMTS teaching theory into practice with , and dedicating themselves to , their own family and friends . There are numerous posts from both of them , all accessible .

A little bit of forum history , some time ago Helluva posted on the forum as an aspiring racer ( I may not have all of my facts exactly right but the gist of the matter is corrrect ) . He was quite critical of PMTS " dogmatism " initially but on giving it some thought , and trial , turned completely around . He has never been to a camp or had a direct lesson though has gone through private E-mail intercourse with Harald . He did what is needed , i.e. left his ego at the door .

If you look up his post history you can see his progression .

[sgarrozzo]

Dear Heluva,

I'm very sorry about you reaction on my posts; it should be clear to everybody that here in Italy is not easy to train our kids according to PMTS schemes and techniques which are known by a few passionate fans if not anybody: there is no PMTS skiing school as far as I know................................

Cheers.

Ancient

Ancient,

I am supportive of your desire to train your kids with PMTS, I think that is great. Most people in the US train using PMTS exactly as you are - on their own. Not having access to a PMTS coach or school is not an excuse......................................................

Heluva. this is a 'good answer.
I think this is the only way to look at for Ancient if he really wants achieve results with their children.
Bravo Max501 a nice movies extract to follow for PMTS progression .
But...............................................
I think that Ancient's work is really hard to do.
I understand perfectly well that trying to teach PMTS to these young boys who spend most of their time on the slopes to follow the advice of their coaches is one thing rather difficult if not impossible to do.

How to fix the situation?

Ancient should speak with the teachers.
That teachers should approve as reported by Ancient and at this point everything became easier.
I think it's impossible.

Ancient, why you do not try to contact Frederico for a few skiing days with him?
Since you're not far away .....

[Max_501]

I understand perfectly well that trying to teach PMTS to these young boys who spend most of their time on the slopes to follow the advice of their coaches is one thing rather difficult if not impossible to do.

I taught both of my kids (racers) how to ski with PMTS while they were part of a TTS racing program. It is up to the parent to decide how the kids should be trained. End of story.

[Max_501]

Max , I see an improvement in tipping but still more room for it.

Tipping, as taught in PMTS, is not part of the skiing shown in these videos.

[Ancient]

Dear Heluva,

I'm very sorry about you reaction on my posts; it should be clear to everybody that here in Italy is not easy to train our kids according to PMTS schemes and techniques which are known by a few passionate fans if not anybody: there is no PMTS skiing school as far as I know.
So I post in this forum my sons' video just because I believe in this skiing method altough I have no deep knowledge of it, and I admit it, but I tried from what I learned to teach my kids as much as I can in the little moments available that we have together when they are not following their skiing lessons: they are taught by their italian instructors and I have little power and skills to influence their technique more than what I said.

Is this a reason to treat a newcome aficionado to this technique like you did? I hope that in this community there can be room to accept persons that are really interested in PMTS altough they don't have, in your opinion, the adequate expertise: is this forum free or is it only for adepts?

Cheers.

Ancient

Ancient,

I am supportive of your desire to train your kids with PMTS, I think that is great. Most people in the US train using PMTS exactly as you are - on their own. Not having access to a PMTS coach or school is not an excuse. There is more public material for PMTS education than any other skiing source (books, DVDs, YouTube, Forum). What books have you read? What DVDs have you purchased and watched? What drills are you working with your kids when you are free skiing with them when they are not with their Italian coaches? What drills are they struggling with? Are you taking video of their drills and comparing them to the video of HH or the other PMTS experts on this site? Are you reviewing the video you are shooting side-by-side with video of other PMTS Experts WITH your kids present? Can you name all of the Essentials and list at least one drill that targets each one? What work have you done to educate yourself and your kids?

Although the skiing has improved over the past year, I see the same root deficiencies being posted again and again. The MA will not change, because you keep showing us the same skiing, based on the same flawed movement patterns. The MA that was given specifically targeted free foot tipping and stance ski balance. This is step #1. What drills are you doing to fix it? If the drills that you're using aren't working, we can probably suggest some that might. Show us video of the drills - maybe you are doing them incorrectly. Kids are incredible copy-cats - who's skiing are they copying? Give them a correct model in yourself or someone else. Reinforce that model with drills and watching WC skiing together. Point out each Essential as it happens in WC skiing or other high level PMTS skiing so this becomes their mental model of a ski turn. Show them their own skiing side-by-side with the correct model. Point out the similarities and the differences. Select drills to target the deficiencies when you are free skiing. Video the drills and show your kids the results side-by-side with Harald performing the same drills. Keep it fun for them. Encourage the change. Get them excited about it.

We aren't talking about a few minor changes here and there - we are talking about a complete rebuild of how you and your kids ski. Until you either add some legitimacy to PMTS by showing it to your kids using WC skiing AND/OR demonstrate PMTS to a level where you visibly ski better than your kid's coaches (to anyone's eye), you aren't going to make a lot of progress with coaching them. It can be very hard work, but it can be done if you're committed to it.

Dear Heluva,

as I said I'm quite new to PMTS technique and method, so at this stage surely I can be of little help to improve my kids skiing although I talk to the them about it and they are very interested and excited about it when I explain to them the similarities with best world cup skiers' technique, but I believe it's not enough.
As you said, a lot of work has to be done and in order to do it I will have to study PMTS books, dvd and video: so far I got to know about PMTS only through some posts and videos appeared in the italian Skiforum.
Anyway I took good note of what you, Max and others said and we'll see what the future will bring but, as Sgarrozzo said, it'll will not be an easy way taking into consideration that other persons (ski coaches), different from me and my kids, are involved and surely as far as I'm concerned my skiing technique I believe it's not yet adequate (and maybe never will be) to be the goal to achieve for my kids:

Cheers and many thanks to everybody contributes.

Ancient

[Max_501]

as I said I'm quite new to PMTS technique and method, so at this stage surely I can be of little help to improve my kids skiing although I talk to the them about it and they are very interested and excited about it when I explain to them the similarities with best world cup skiers' technique, but I believe it's not enough

Talking about PMTS won't get changes. This isn't complicated at all, just do the drills and the improvement will come.

...will not be an easy way taking into consideration that other persons (ski coaches), different from me and my kids, are involved and surely as far as I'm concerned my skiing technique I believe it's not yet adequate (and maybe never will be) to be the goal to achieve for my kids

Just order the books, follow the progression from Book 1 to Book 2, and do the drills until you have them mastered. As far as the coaches go, I told my kids to ignore anything their coaches said when it conflicted with PMTS. For example, my kids have a huge flex to release and it drove their coaches crazy. When the coach said to extend the kids just nodded, said I'll try, and then flexed to release. When the coaches said to widen their stance the kids said OK, and then worked on keeping their stance narrow with balance over the outside ski. Some of the coaching they got was fine but most conflicted so they just ignored it. It really wasn't difficult and their results proved that PMTS worked. It was no secret that my kids were working outside of their time with the race program because people would see us working on drills. And even though I had no real race or coaching experience, I had other parents asking me to help their kids because they could see my kids improving so quickly. The changes were obvious and measurable. Very different than the standard TTS approach where many kids don't show any sign of improvement after a full season on the hill.

MA - all of you need to learn how to balance over the outside ski.

[jclayton]

" jclayton wrote:
Max , I see an improvement in tipping but still more room for it.
Tipping, as taught in PMTS, is not part of the skiing shown in these videos "


Back to the drawing board !!

[sgarrozzo]

I understand perfectly well that trying to teach PMTS to these young boys who spend most of their time on the slopes to follow the advice of their coaches is one thing rather difficult if not impossible to do.

I taught both of my kids (racers) how to ski with PMTS while they were part of a TTS racing program. It is up to the parent to decide how the kids should be trained. End of story.

nice answer.
I was sure you'd say something like that.
I think it is very encouraging for Ancient you've had this experience.

[Ancient]

Maybe I'm wrong but I see some small improvements, after having worked on, in terms of flex to release and inside foot tipping:

What's your opinion?

One more question: which are the main differences in terms of PMTS technique between this picture of M. Shiffrin posted by Harald in his blog:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/LQr1Ctks3prENmt5cPjxCtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

and the following one of a boy aged 10?

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ELniPestS09_FSaysJGEqdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

Sorry to insist, but we want hard to improve in PMTS.

Cheers.

Ancient

[Max_501]

Sorry to insist, but we want hard to improve in PMTS.

Which of the PMTS drills have you been working on? Do you have any video of the drills?

I wrote this on Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:55 am. Still applies today.

Also balance over the outside ski and free foot management.

[Ancient]

Javelin turns essentially but evidently it was not enough.

[Max_501]

Javelin turns essentially but evidently it was not enough.

If you want the kids to be fast you gotta get them off the inside foot.

Reread this post:

Ancient,

I am supportive of your desire to train your kids with PMTS, I think that is great. Most people in the US train using PMTS exactly as you are - on their own. Not having access to a PMTS coach or school is not an excuse. There is more public material for PMTS education than any other skiing source (books, DVDs, YouTube, Forum). What books have you read? What DVDs have you purchased and watched? What drills are you working with your kids when you are free skiing with them when they are not with their Italian coaches? What drills are they struggling with? Are you taking video of their drills and comparing them to the video of HH or the other PMTS experts on this site? Are you reviewing the video you are shooting side-by-side with video of other PMTS Experts WITH your kids present? Can you name all of the Essentials and list at least one drill that targets each one? What work have you done to educate yourself and your kids?

Although the skiing has improved over the past year, I see the same root deficiencies being posted again and again. The MA will not change, because you keep showing us the same skiing, based on the same flawed movement patterns. The MA that was given specifically targeted free foot tipping and stance ski balance. This is step #1. What drills are you doing to fix it? If the drills that you're using aren't working, we can probably suggest some that might. Show us video of the drills - maybe you are doing them incorrectly. Kids are incredible copy-cats - who's skiing are they copying? Give them a correct model in yourself or someone else. Reinforce that model with drills and watching WC skiing together. Point out each Essential as it happens in WC skiing or other high level PMTS skiing so this becomes their mental model of a ski turn. Show them their own skiing side-by-side with the correct model. Point out the similarities and the differences. Select drills to target the deficiencies when you are free skiing. Video the drills and show your kids the results side-by-side with Harald performing the same drills. Keep it fun for them. Encourage the change. Get them excited about it.

We aren't talking about a few minor changes here and there - we are talking about a complete rebuild of how you and your kids ski. Until you either add some legitimacy to PMTS by showing it to your kids using WC skiing AND/OR demonstrate PMTS to a level where you visibly ski better than your kid's coaches (to anyone's eye), you aren't going to make a lot of progress with coaching them. It can be very hard work, but it can be done if you're committed to it.

[Ancient]

If you want the kids to be fast you gotta get them off the inside foot.

Do you see any improvement in this aspect?

Ancient

[BigE]

Ancient,

Do you?