MA for young Tommi

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:33 am

L.O.L.!!!!!!
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:30 am

https://picasaweb.google.com/1035879170 ... 3621498754

From Picasa I cannot insert images but clicking on the above link you should probably be able to view the picture.

Is there any improvement in Tommi's skiing?
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:24 am

Ancient wrote:From Picasa I cannot insert images but clicking on the above link you should probably be able to view the picture.

Is there any improvement in Tommi's skiing?


To insert the image in your posts you can right click on the image in Picassa and select "copy image URL" and then paste that into the PMTS forum editing box with the "Img" button -

Image

Is he balanced over the inside or outside ski? What would happen if he lifted his inside ski off the snow?
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:24 am

Max_501 wrote:
Ancient wrote:From Picasa I cannot insert images but clicking on the above link you should probably be able to view the picture.

Is there any improvement in Tommi's skiing?


To insert the image in your posts you can right click on the image in Picassa and select "copy image URL" and then paste that into the PMTS forum editing box with the "Img" button -

Image

Is he balanced over the inside or outside ski? What would happen if he lifted his inside ski off the snow?


https://picasaweb.google.com/1035879170 ... 3752693826


It seems to me that your question could apply also to the above picture that was posted on HH's blog.In Tommi's picture you can see the outside ski deformed: does that mean that the pressure is on the outside ski?

P.s. I cannot make it work: it appears an image icon not visible
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:26 pm

Ancient wrote:It seems to me that your question could apply also to the above picture that was posted on HH's blog.


The skier on HH's blog is demonstrating a much different body position. They aren't even close to being comparable. For an understanding of why, start with page 1 of book 1 and go from there.

Ancient wrote:In Tommi's picture you can see the outside ski deformed: does that mean that the pressure is on the outside ski?


Where is his balance?
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby DougD » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:59 am

Max asked about balance but you responded by talking about pressure. Why the non-sequitar?

Anyone can pressure their outside ski while balancing on their inside ski. First day skiers in TTS classes learn to do it in a wedge, but it's not advanced skiing and it's not PMTS.

To this unbiased observer, these two young skiers are in very different positions with regard to balance. Aside from the vast difference in stance width there's another obvious clue: compare their inside elbow positions. Tommi's is tucked beneath his knee, indicating that his torso is leaning and crouching to the inside of the turn. The other skier's inside elbow is high, which demonstrates a much greater range of CB.

To answer Max's question:
1. if Tommi lifted his inside ski, (a) he probably wouldn't because (b) he'd fall over;
2. if the young skier from HH's blog lifted his inside ski, he'd continue carving the turn.

Tommi needs to work on narrowing his stance. At his age with a boy's typically narrow hips, the instep of his inside boot should be touching (or nearly) the cuff of his outside boot. There are drills in Book 1 to help him work on this.

A fun drill that might help is to have him ski easy turns while holding a soft ball between his boots. If he drops the ball, he loses. He'll have trouble at first, so start on gentle terrain and use a relatively large ball. As he improves, progress to smaller diameter balls. Do NOT move him to tougher terrain until he's mastered the drill, as that would probably undo any progress.
DougD
 
Posts: 572
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:22 am
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:24 pm

I don't see Tommi leaning inside the turn; on the contrary I see some counterbalance and counteracting although the torso is bent, maybe,too much over the knees instead of beeing more vertical, but I believe that depends also on the fact that is just skiing down the peak of a bump and he needs to be over the feet in order to prevent to move back over the tails of the skiis.
Meanwhile, I agree on narrowing the stance to further increase the balance over the outside ski.

Anyway, I take good note of your suggestion and I keep on studying PMTS essentials.

Cheers.

Ancient
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:52 pm

In PMTS the student will master the Super Phantom turn long before carving. Without that step we see the classic wide stance with balance supported by the inside ski. That is not how WC racers win.

I'd suggest starting with the progression in Book 1:

https://www.harbskisystems.com/index.ph ... Itemid=102

Or the PMTS Instructor Manual:

https://www.harbskisystems.com/index.ph ... Itemid=102
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby RRT » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:34 pm

Ancient,
I don't know if this has been asked of you before. If it has, my apology, but instead of trying to bring PMTS to Tommi, why not bring Tommi to PMTS by taking him to camp or to a Certified PMTS instructor? It seems like it would be a worthwhile investment and help to move his progress forward exponentially, assuming he is still flexible within his mind and not resistant to change and work.
RRT
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:15 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:02 am

Ancient wrote: I take good note of your suggestion and I keep on studying PMTS essentials.


Please take note of your own advice....

Why are you still trying to defend and argue against some of the best advice from some of the best ski coaches in the business?? Would it make any difference if it was HH who was giving you the advice? The message would still be the same, i guarantee it...

Tommi has great potential, but is being held back by your resistance. You can't use PMTS as a sticking plaster. I appreciate how hard it is to make ski coaching fun and interesting to young kids - i have 2 of my own that i am trying to 're-teach' their movement patterns...it can be done, but YOU have to be committed...part of that means acceptance that everything you thought you knew or understood about skiing movement patterns is wrong...don't handicap his skiing in this way if you really want him to excceed...

HH's blog is a goldmine! Work your way through it - it's ALL pertinent to Tommi's skiing and your understanding...

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.co.uk
User avatar
go_large_or_go_home
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:52 am
Location: UK

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:54 am

go_large_or_go_home wrote:
Ancient wrote: I take good note of your suggestion and I keep on studying PMTS essentials.


Please take note of your own advice....

Why are you still trying to defend and argue against some of the best advice from some of the best ski coaches in the business?? Would it make any difference if it was HH who was giving you the advice? The message would still be the same, i guarantee it...

Tommi has great potential, but is being held back by your resistance. You can't use PMTS as a sticking plaster. I appreciate how hard it is to make ski coaching fun and interesting to young kids - i have 2 of my own that i am trying to 're-teach' their movement patterns...it can be done, but YOU have to be committed...part of that means acceptance that everything you thought you knew or understood about skiing movement patterns is wrong...don't handicap his skiing in this way if you really want him to excceed...

HH's blog is a goldmine! Work your way through it - it's ALL pertinent to Tommi's skiing and your understanding...

http://harbskisysems.blogspot.co.uk


Tommi has his coaches teaching him leaving very little time to try other specific drills, although I try to give him other inputs deriving from my knowledge of PMTS technique but evidently, as you are saying, both my knowledge and my tips are not sufficient to make him progress consistently, but I don't give up and I will continue to follow PMTS indication to try to coach my kids.

RRT, as far as I know there are no PMTS camps or instructors based here in Italy, otherwise I would have resorted for.

Cheers.

Ancient
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:36 am

Ancient wrote:Tommi has his coaches teaching him leaving very little time to try other specific drills, although I try to give him other inputs deriving from my knowledge of PMTS technique but evidently, as you are saying, both my knowledge and my tips are not sufficient to make him progress consistently, but I don't give up and I will continue to follow PMTS indication to try to coach my kids.


Some of us have had a similar experience with our junior racers. As I watched my kids technique go in a direction that was opposite of what I saw the top WC racers doing I decided to step in for their technique instruction. I had the kids watch the PMTS videos with me so they had a visual model and then I spent at least an hour after their race training days working on narrowing the stance and flexing (both of which were directly opposite of what they were being coached). At home we'd often watch WC footage of winning races and I pointed out how the top WC racers used the same movements we were learning from the PMTS videos. At one point one of the kids told a coach he was wrong about a wide stance (which was pretty funny), and I got called to the mat for that. Nothing I could say was going to convince this coach that teaching the kids a wide stance was counter productive so I shut my mouth and then when we were in the car I told my kids to ignore everything the coaches said that was opposite of what HH wanted them to do. So when a coach said to extend between turns (often shouted as "stand up") or they heard "wider, wider, wider", they'd politely say "I'm trying my best" and leave it at that. Coaching for course tactics still came from the race coaches while I provided technique feedback via text messages they'd read on the lift (suck up the inside leg, more CB, tip earlier, and so on). They got faster and faster with this model.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:03 am

Max_501 wrote:
Ancient wrote:Tommi has his coaches teaching him leaving very little time to try other specific drills, although I try to give him other inputs deriving from my knowledge of PMTS technique but evidently, as you are saying, both my knowledge and my tips are not sufficient to make him progress consistently, but I don't give up and I will continue to follow PMTS indication to try to coach my kids.


Some of us have had a similar experience with our junior racers. As I watched my kids technique go in a direction that was opposite of what I saw the top WC racers doing I decided to step in for their technique instruction. I had the kids watch the PMTS videos with me so they had a visual model and then I spent at least an hour after their race training days working on narrowing the stance and flexing (both of which were directly opposite of what they were being coached). At home we'd often watch WC footage of winning races and I pointed out how the top WC racers used the same movements we were learning from the PMTS videos. At one point one of the kids told a coach he was wrong about a wide stance (which was pretty funny), and I got called to the mat for that. Nothing I could say was going to convince this coach that teaching the kids a wide stance was counter productive so I shut my mouth and then when we were in the car I told my kids to ignore everything the coaches said that was opposite of what HH wanted them to do. So when a coach said to extend between turns (often shouted as "stand up") or they heard "wider, wider, wider", they'd politely say "I'm trying my best" and leave it at that. Coaching for course tactics still came from the race coaches while I provided technique feedback via text messages they'd read on the lift (suck up the inside leg, more CB, tip earlier, and so on). They got faster and faster with this model.



Max 501,

that's exactly what I'm trying to do, but probably with less capabilities in terms of PMTS knowledge and less success with my kids. So, I understand very well what you passed through.
I'll try with more effort notwithstanding this season is over for me because of a femur brocken, but I'll work on videos etc..

Coming back to Tommi's picture, since not every turn is perfect, I see some similarities with the below photo:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1035879170 ... 4509404818

Am I completely wrong?

Cheers.

Ancient
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Max_501 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:05 am

Ancient wrote:Coming back to Tommi's picture, since not every turn is perfect, I see some similarities with the below photo:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1035879170 ... 4509404818

Am I completely wrong?


Keep in mind that success with PMTS starts at the feet. If we compare the relative positions of the feet and legs there are big differences.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: MA for young Tommi

Postby Ancient » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:14 am

Max_501 wrote:Keep in mind that success with PMTS starts at the feet. If we compare the relative positions of the feet and legs there are big differences.


Therefore, I'll try to improve my MA skills, keeping on studying PMTS essentials.
User avatar
Ancient
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:55 am

PreviousNext

Return to Movement Analysis and Video

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests

cron