Tipping ?

Tipping ?

Postby Marek » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:01 pm

Hi,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCogbELpibU&NR=1
Do you see a hint of tipping here, or it is steered turn ?
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby HighAngles » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:07 pm

Can you say rotation, inclination, and extension? That skiing is about 180* from what we strive for in PMTS movements.
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby Marek » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:57 am

HighAngles wrote:... rotation, inclination, and extension...

Exactly. Rotation is the most severe problem here. Well, all those imperfections are severe...What to do to BEGIN undo bad habits ? I am not PMTS trainer but would like to help by PMTS way. From my experience Introducing PMTS movements to begginers is a more or less straight path, if thay know nothing about TTS ( wedge, up movements etc ), Haralds DVD's and books are VERY helpful - I can demonstrate stationary exercises, and some more, try correct balance or pole use ( BTW Harald's " Pole drag " tips are Oscar winng tools ), but when things are going steeper i.e. upper body coordination I do not feel very comfortable, for example HIP-O-METER attempts are often rejected, judged as " goofy ". So, any tip, advice are very welcome, we will start a camp next week ( 6 days ), not much time and I'd like to start with the guy as correctly as possible.
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:35 am

First identify the SMIM (single most important movement). If the student is lacking tipping then you start with tipping drills. In general you work on the primary movements of tipping, flexing, and fore/aft balance and then follow with the secondary movements of CB/CA. However, is some cases we must address one of the secondary movements before we have worked through the primary movements. For example, if your student has zero natural CB when working on tipping you may want to do a few staionary CB drills to get them moving in the right direction.

Take a look at this thread for some ideas.

http://pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2858

The SMIM will change as the student progresses. This checklist may help:

Things to consider for MA:

Is the stance width appropriate for the size of the skier?
Does the release start by flexing the outside leg?
Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn?
Are the feet pulled back at transition?
Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn?
Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right?
Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement?
Strong inside arm?
Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses?
Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses?
Does LTE tipping of the inside foot continue throughout the turn?
Is the skier balanced over the outside ski?
Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing?
Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs go be tipped in or out?

Taking video for MA:

Stand about half way down the run. This depends on length of run and amount of terrain you can see. Generally I try to split the visible filming distance so I can get an equal number of turns from the front and back. Video at least 5 turns of the front, as the skier approaches, and then at least 5 turns from back, as the subject skis away. Pan smoothly as the subject passes keeping the skier in frame so we can see a side view. Use the zoom and OIS features if your camera has them. I suggest a max of 10x zoom which will help with image stability. If you need to exceed 10X zoom consider using a monopod.
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby Marek » Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:57 pm

Thanks Max ! Very informative, a lot of valuable stuff came from that thread.
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby polecat » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:28 pm

Marek wrote:...What to do to BEGIN undo bad habits ? ...

IMHO, undoing the old habits must begin with the clear understanding that you'll need to unlearn everything you "know" and start over from scratch.


Marek wrote:... for example HIP-O-METER attempts are often rejected, judged as " goofy ". ....

Then tell them they only have to do it until they get it right. :mrgreen:



pc
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby Marek » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:45 pm

Well, we are back after six sunny days in Trentino. The course was pretty intensive, almost 7 hours a day.
The drill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HVv8KuMPEM
and
The exam run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4pFCc3SUNo
He improved, I am sure, but do this progression lead to PMTS?
PS Max, what camera ( brand & model ) do you recommend for coaching, preferably held by elastic band on side of the head.
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby HighAngles » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:19 pm

I embedded them for you:



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Re: Tipping ?

Postby jclayton » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:40 pm

Regarding tipping , there is an A frame due to hanging on too long to the BTE , not releasing early enough and tipping with the new LTE .
No relaxation of the stance leg which enables tipping of the new LTE to form an " O " frame , keeping the inside LTE tipping ahead of the BTE , or new stance ski .
skinut ,among other things
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Re: Tipping ?

Postby BigE » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:08 pm

Tipping is the most important thing here. Regardless of the student's background, you should ALWAYS start with tipping.

If you cannot tip, you've got nothing.

I've struggled a lot with this idea, because tipping is hard and unnatural. BUT, once you get it, you see quickly that you can't ski well without it.

There is not much improvement between the first video and the last, because it looks like foot tipping has not been addressed. Foot and leg tipping actions are at the core of PMTS.

The size of the turns in the third video indicate that the skier is just "riding the side cut". He is supposed to tip and keep tipping, flex and keep flexing, CB and Keep CBing, CA and keep CAing. He is adopting a static pose and riding the ski. That is park and ride, and certainly not PMTS.

The secondary movements support the primary movements. As Max said, if there is a lack of natural secondary movement that is getting in the way of the others, then you need to do something out of order. Tip, Flex, pull back are the right order, then you work on secondary movements.

There are no short cuts. Believe me, I've tried....
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