SL Turns MA

SL Turns MA

Postby skifastDDS » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:11 am

After skiing with Heluvaskier, Geoffda, and HighAngles for a few days this spring, we took some video.

I've only recently begun trying to implement PMTS movements in my skiing after watching the dramatic improvements made by Heluvaskier in the past couple of years. My main goals in this video were to work on flexing through the transition and tipping earlier in the High-C. It's been difficult to try to eliminate my up move in transition, and I wind up in the back seat sometimes, but I think I'm making progress.

I'm on 165 Nordica Dobermann SLRs and Nordica Dobermann Aggressor WC 130 boots.

Snow conditions: VERY soft, freshly groomed. Semi-steep blue at A-Basin.

I welcome any comments. Thanks!

Watch it in full screen HD, it scales up well.


Video shot by heluvaskier
Last edited by skifastDDS on Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:17 am

Need CB/CA, especially on the left footers (when the left foot is the stance foot).
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:43 am

Max_501 wrote:Need CB/CA, especially on the left footers (when the left foot is the stance foot).


Alignment issue most likely. Looks to be hard by about a half-degree. Nothing a few layers of duct tape or the wife's credit card can't fix. :D
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:53 am

Proper alignment always helps, but .5 degrees won't fix the movement issues.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Skiasaurus Rex » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:22 pm

I read one post here about flexing that said to release the skis by focusing on flexing just the downhill/outside leg at the end of the turn until it matches the already flexed inside leg and then continue to flex them together.

It seems to me you are aggressively flexing both legs just before the transition before they are even-and I think that 'unbalanced' flex sequence throws off your balance in a number of turns (resulting in some backseat recovery maneuvers). I get that you are trying to ditch a long held up move at the transition and are focusing on an aggressive flex to release, but, the timing and the sequence do matter. At least that's how I read it.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:26 pm

The flexing is quite good. Wouldn't change a thing there just yet. The balance problems are from falling to the inside. CB and CA should address this issue.
Last edited by Max_501 on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby serious » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:01 pm

I definitely agree with the need for more CB/CA. The flexing is very good and the 2 footed release clearly visible, but here is something to think about:

You tend to be a little late in some of the releases, which results in a "rushed" edge change and that in turn causes a bit of a "edge set" at the top of the new turn. Try to smooth out the transition with an earlier and more gradual flex/tip/release so that you have a chance to engage the new edges without the hard "edge set".
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:15 pm

serious wrote:You tend to be a little late in some of the releases, which results in a "rushed" edge change and that in turn causes a bit of a "edge set" at the top of the new turn. Try to smooth out the transition with an earlier and more gradual flex/tip/release so that you have a chance to engage the new edges without the hard "edge set".


Be more specific. Which releases are rushed and which are fine? The student needs to know exactly what to do.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby serious » Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:54 pm

For example at 48 and 76 seconds the turn is started with a rather hard edge set. But in general the skiing shown in the video shows a tendency for late releases and hard engagements. That is ok if that is the intention, but it also prevents that smooth, progressive high-C engagement that you see in HH videos.

But the more important question for me is: do you Max_501 or Heluvaskier see this? Do you think the OP will benefit from "slowing things down" so that CA, CB and a nice progressive high-C engagement can all come together?
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:46 pm

In PMTS we try to identify the SMIM (single most important movement) and I'd start with CB/CA drills. Adding CB/CA to the the left side will make a huge differnce in these turns.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Matt » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:34 am

Great quality, it looked so much better in HD. What kind of camera is that?

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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:09 am

Samsung HMX-H200. Nothing too fancy, but it takes nice video for MA and fits in a pocket well.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:00 am

The video quality is great for MA. I like to shoot video so there are 5 turns above the camera and 5 turns below. That makes MA much easier. It does take some practice to be able to smoothly zoom out and pan as the skier passes the cameraman.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:30 am

I think your alignment is too aggressive on the left foot. I’m not sure what your setup is, but it looks like you’re out too far. This may actually be true for both legs, but definitely the left. The Aggressor boot is edgier because of the toe-out. It also creates a lot of potential setup issues because it rotates your foot – adding one more variable to the alignment equation. You tend to naturally toe out anyway, so the boot may work for you if you spend time on dialing in your lateral alignment. I’d take a half of a degree off the left leg and then verify with video. Use duct tape canting. Move in 2-layer increments until it looks right on video – you may have to go beyond 1 degree. Out of curiosity (hunch) – how rigid are those foot beds you have?

Your focus on flexing is a good start. The next step [and I'd argue your most important] is to work on foot pullback to keep your hips forward while doing it. Remember, there is a difference between squatting down toward your skis to release, and pulling your feet up toward your hips to release. There are a bunch of drills that you are aware of that can help you develop this, but the biggest help for me has been to change the way I think about flexing – it isn’t squatting. Free foot pullback and the ability to hold the feet back in transition can go a long way for you here. Flexing and fore/aft go hand-in-hand. Check the total ramp of your boot, and how close your BoF is to CRS on your skis - you may need to adjust your setup to feel comfortable on the skis when you are truly skiing with your hips forward. There is also the likelihood that the squatty-ness of your turns due to the flexing without pulling your feet [especially the free foot in several instances] back is causing you to fall back and to the inside. This would negate most CB and make any ‘fake’ CA that is present a rotation around the stance leg instead of a rotation around the spine. Notice you're showing more CB on your right footers - the same side you're also more forward on? Not a coincidence. More CB might treat the symptom, but not cause.

You have some CB on your right footers; none on the left. If CB on the left doesn’t appear as you tinker with the boot setup, then it is definitely a movement deficiency as Max pointed out. Also, you have very little, to no CA going on. CA will not just help the CB and tipping/edge engagement, but will also immensely improve your ability to release without a push off. You are fairly flexible from all the climbing you do, so you are probably not being blocked due to RoM, so it is probably a combination of boot setup and not owning the movements.

You can’t really have a PMTS MA without talking about tipping. Once you become more comfortable with the movements discussed above, it’s time to re-focus on tipping. Specifically, getting the long-leg / short-leg back into your skiing. I really like the power release for training this. It teaches the use of a large RoM combined with an effective flex-to-release. I think Harald has this on YouTube. Tip earlier in the turn, keep tipping for longer, and tip more. If you aren’t tipping, you need to be releasing. Just something to keep in mind as you improve.
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Re: SL Turns MA

Postby Max_501 » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:59 am

Interesting analysis.

I would suggest that, at these angles, if you don't add aggressive CB/CA you'll end up falling to the inside regardless of increasing foot pullback, changing alignment, or transition timing. OTOH, if you add CB/CA first, balance over the outside ski should result. If it doesn't then we know there must be another cause.
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