MA for HighAngles

Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby Max_501 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:53 pm

The pelvis is part of the upper body so the pelvis, belly button, spine and shoulders all point in the same direction during CA. The femur rotates in the hip socket during CA. Same is true for CB.

This is a separate issue from hip dumping which is leading the tipping with the hips which is too high up in the kinetic chain. Start from the feet and let the hips follow.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby geoffda » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:49 am

Yes, there are two issues here. One is lack of CA, the other is hip dumping. Don't worry, I think your understanding is intact. I think you are just confused at the moment. Let's go skiing and I can show you what I'm talking about & we can get some video.

Hip dumping just means that your hip moved laterally into the turn ahead of everything else. If you stand parallel to a wall, about a six inches away, there are two ways you can put your body on the wall. The first is by tipping your feet. If you do this correctly, your knees will hit the wall, and you will come to rest on your thighs. Your hip never touches (or if it does it is a very light touch and only after your thighs hit). That is what I mean by the hips have to follow (we're talking lateral movements here; in the kinetic chain the feet tip, the ankles move next, the knees move next, then the hips). Now, go back and do the drill again and notice that you can do it without ever pushing off the outside foot to get started. Simply flexing and tipping the inside foot is enough to remove your base of support and start you moving towards the wall. Repeat as necessary until you feel that you are NOT pushing off. This is how your transitions need to work. Pay attention to the amount of tension in your hip that is required to keep it from touching the wall. That is what you need to be feeling in your turns.

The alternative is to dump your hip. To do that, keep your inside leg relatively straight and try to put your hip on the wall without letting anything below it touch. Notice the difference? In that case you had to push off your outside foot to move your hip over. Now try adding some counteracting with a straight inside leg. Notice how you just made the problem worse? So what this shows you is that hip dumping is incompatible with tipping. To tip you have to be flexed and active with your feet.

So back to hip dumping. The above example was the extreme version. In the still, what is happening to you is simply that the hips have gotten out of sequence in the kinetic chain. They are "touching the wall". So either, you still have a little bit of a push in your transition or you just got lazy with the inside foot, stopped tipping and let the hips get out ahead. You are most of the way towards doing the right thing with your feet, you just have a little more work to do.

As far as CA goes, you understand what it is, you just aren't doing it and part of the problem is that you are bunched up at the hips. Until you figure out how to get more upright, CA is really, really, hard because you are fighting a completely locked up midsection.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby cheesehead » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:00 am

>>> Pay attention to the amount of tension in your hip that is required to keep it from touching the wall.<<<

If I understand this correctly, this tension is what is used to keep the pelvis horizontal. And keeping the pelvis horizontal keeps the upper body more "over-the-skis" in the edge-change-to-high-C phase of the turn, instead of being thrown over the skis.

Do I understand "hip-dumping" to mean what is often done when people throw their hips from side-to-side without the proper support from the lower legs?
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby HighAngles » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:06 pm

Geoff - you're awesome - your explanation totally makes sense and I can't wait to get home and test this out. And thanks to everyone for chiming in and helping clear up my confusion.

I'm headed to the airport now to get my butt back in Denver. 81* today in Tampa. It feels like I time warped from February to June.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby geoffda » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:14 pm

cheesehead wrote:>>> Pay attention to the amount of tension in your hip that is required to keep it from touching the wall.<<<

If I understand this correctly, this tension is what is used to keep the pelvis horizontal. And keeping the pelvis horizontal keeps the upper body more "over-the-skis" in the edge-change-to-high-C phase of the turn, instead of being thrown over the skis.

Do I understand "hip-dumping" to mean what is often done when people throw their hips from side-to-side without the proper support from the lower legs?


Yes. And guess what? If you level your pelvis you are...wait for it...counter balancing! I think of hip dumping as simply leading your transition movements with your hips instead of your feet; i.e. non-kinetic chain skiing. For us PMTS skiers, I think that is a good definition. However, "true" hip dumping occurs when you straighten or stiffen your inside leg and then counteract hard with your hips. That position locks you up; your inside knee twists inward and you are pretty well trapped in a very static position. It looks like your butt is literally hanging out to the side when somebody is looking at you head on.

To avoid both types of hip dumping, just ski with your feet and continue to lead your tipping with your inside foot (never stop increasing the tipping). if your feet lead the tipping, the hips have to follow. Plus in order to tip, you have to flex, and if you flex, you can't lock up and dump your hip when you counteract.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby nipper » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:26 am

Geoffda,
Your comments "Your hip never touches (or if it does it is a very light touch and only after the thighs touch)" and "Pay attention to the amount of tension in your hip that is required to keep it from touching the wall, That is what is you need to be feeling in your turns"
Those comments are priceless. I have long felt that my CB and CA were not sufficiently strong and have struggled to improve in that area. You have switched on the light. I now realise that I am lazy with the inside foot allowing the hip to get ahead. I can feel the difference doing the static indoor exercise. Now it is just a matter of doing the same on snow. PMTS seems like peeling an onion. Every time I think I understand the subject I peel away another thin layer to reveal another subtle layer underneath. Thank you.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby newskier » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:15 am

geoffda wrote:Yes, there are two issues here. One is lack of CA, the other is hip dumping. Don't worry, I think your understanding is intact. I think you are just confused at the moment. Let's go skiing and I can show you what I'm talking about & we can get some video.

Hip dumping just means that your hip moved laterally into the turn ahead of everything else. If you stand parallel to a wall, about a six inches away, there are two ways you can put your body on the wall. The first is by tipping your feet. If you do this correctly, your knees will hit the wall, and you will come to rest on your thighs. Your hip never touches (or if it does it is a very light touch and only after your thighs hit). That is what I mean by the hips have to follow (we're talking lateral movements here; in the kinetic chain the feet tip, the ankles move next, the knees move next, then the hips). Now, go back and do the drill again and notice that you can do it without ever pushing off the outside foot to get started. Simply flexing and tipping the inside foot is enough to remove your base of support and start you moving towards the wall. Repeat as necessary until you feel that you are NOT pushing off. This is how your transitions need to work. Pay attention to the amount of tension in your hip that is required to keep it from touching the wall. That is what you need to be feeling in your turns.

The alternative is to dump your hip. To do that, keep your inside leg relatively straight and try to put your hip on the wall without letting anything below it touch. Notice the difference? In that case you had to push off your outside foot to move your hip over. Now try adding some counteracting with a straight inside leg. Notice how you just made the problem worse? So what this shows you is that hip dumping is incompatible with tipping. To tip you have to be flexed and active with your feet.

So back to hip dumping. The above example was the extreme version. In the still, what is happening to you is simply that the hips have gotten out of sequence in the kinetic chain. They are "touching the wall". So either, you still have a little bit of a push in your transition or you just got lazy with the inside foot, stopped tipping and let the hips get out ahead. You are most of the way towards doing the right thing with your feet, you just have a little more work to do.

As far as CA goes, you understand what it is, you just aren't doing it and part of the problem is that you are bunched up at the hips. Until you figure out how to get more upright, CA is really, really, hard because you are fighting a completely locked up midsection.


The pole lean exercise in p 128 of Essential have the hip touching the pole. Are both the same?
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby HighAngles » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:49 pm

A couple shots from early season 2011-12:

Image

Image

I'm finding that some things have been incorporated from my work last season, but I'm also finding that I'm still struggling with CA (maintaining a stronger inside half) and fore/aft (I never seem to stay forward enough).
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby jepoupatout » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:11 am

Hi HighAngles, nice shot, the blue one is your best. My comment is about the first picture in red:
Look at your outside arm, your finger are pointing inside the turn. Your hands, arms are are goods indicator of what is happening with your shoulder also. It is very hard to maintain good CA if your hands and arms are pointing inside the turn. Keep an eye on the outside hand of Max501 Avatar and compare.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby Max_501 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Drive the inside hand/arm forward and up. Connect the upper body to the pelvis. Pull the inside foot up while tipping so you can achieve even larger angles.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:12 am

Max_501 wrote:Connect the upper body to the pelvis. Pull the inside foot up while tipping so you can achieve even larger angles.


This. Get that inside foot/leg out of the way.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby HighAngles » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:42 am

Thanks guys. I have been working on pulling up the inside leg, but what has been happening quite often is that I'm not providing enough CB and I end up "on" that inside leg if I pull it up just for the sake of getting it out of the way.

So what I realized last time out is I have to stop trying to achieve "positions" and instead ski the way PMTS really intends by focusing on the movements. In this case that means a lot more super phantom drills to really use the inside leg to actively build my turns and keep the stance leg as passive as possible. When I really focus on that I feel like my skiing is in much better balance and the appropriate amount of CB just happens. I'll post up new video soon.

Also, thanks for the mental thoughts for my CA. I really need to get my hips, torso, and shoulders countering together. I became very "hip oriented" last season due to my epiphany about hip position, but in looking at lots of the latest shots I see that my shoulders and arm positions are showing that my counteracting is not solid from my hips all the way up (even when I'm really trying to achieve it).
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby jepoupatout » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:36 am

Hi HighAngles, you said: I have been working on pulling up the inside leg, but what has been happening quite often is that I'm not providing enough CB and I end up "on" that inside leg .
If you add more CA and practice no swing pole plant you will keep your balance and develop bigger angles. The other element that Max-501 mentioned will take place more easyly as you hold your balance.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby Max_501 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:57 am

As you pull up the inside leg try to raise the inside hip (which levels the pelvis). As you mentioned, CB isn't a position but a movement to stay in balance. Work on increasing CB as the angles develop.

Throw some javelins into your drill time.
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Re: MA for HighAngles

Postby Max_501 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:27 am

In this image you might think CB is lacking because the inside arm is low while the outside is high. However, look at the position of the pelvis. Once you get to a point where you can raise the inside hip you'll be albe to achieve solid CB even when your arms aren't in a great position.

Image
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