MA for Idahorob

MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:31 pm

After frustrating attempts to get useful video with six different people, finally one you can see. I haven't done this before, so hope this works.
Your feedback, please . . .
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:37 pm

Rats! Doesn't look like it worked to embed the youtube video in the post. And it seemed like such simple instructions. Let's try just the URL:

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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby carver_hk » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:42 pm

I just want to say I like your turns. Perhaps you can challenge yourself making smaller turns in coming MA? :D
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:36 pm

Thanks, Carver. I was skiing with a new friend who is a former US Alpine team member and these were the size turns he was having me play with. And, this was the only one of three videos he shot where you can see anything I'm doing, so I don't have anything of my smaller turns. I'll see what I can come up with next week.
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby carver_hk » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:52 pm

Honestly I can't spot any pmts issue with your turns. I ll leave that to the big name here. What I had in mind was just that smaller turns means more challenge and probably make it more easy to spot your issue. Of course the big names can help you. Don't hurry about the smaller turns. Bigger turns give you more time to train your muscle memory and give you more time to refine your skill. :D
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby leopold_bloom » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:03 pm

Hello Idahorob,

My comments are based on a couple of turns that I could see clearly. If those close-to-the-camera turns are not indicative of your skiing then my comments don't count.

The salient characteristic of your skiing is the big tip lead. If you look at the angle that your shin creates against the ski, you will see that your outside shin is angled sharply forward, much more so than the inside shin.

It's easy to fall into this trap because the position in which you place yourself provides a certain degree of stability and comfort that allows you to ride out the turn.

When I see this symptom I am inclined to look for a more fundamental problem. I suspect you have some problems with one-footed balance. Equipment or alignment could be contributing factors.

Right now, your movement pattern is the exact opposite of the ideal in one respect. At the end of your turn, the stance foot (soon to become the free foot) is well behind the inside ski. In transition you bring it forward so that when your skis are flat your tips are roughly even. This foot continues to move forward as you tip into the new turn. You are pushing your free foot forward, rather than holding it back--opposite to the ideal.

Have a close look at your movements after transition. At the point where you should establish yourself on the new stance ski, you turn your hips to the outside of the turn and drop them inside. This may sound roughly like early CA and CB but it is not. It produces an entirely different outcome. It places you in a static braced position that blocks the turning potential of your skis rather than enhancing it.

CA and CB work in conjunction with the forces that develop in the turn. Right now you're trying to take a short cut around force development. Without the proper forces in the equation, you have to make your own by working one foot against the other (remember the shin angles) to prevent yourself from falling inside.

By way of analogy consider coasting downhill on a bicycle. When you come to a bend in the road, what do you do? Virtually nothing. A subtle change in balance is all that is required to ride through the turn. You wouldn't think of turning the handlebars or bracing against the front wheel to force yourself around the corner, would you? Skiing is a lot like coasting downhill on a bicycle. Ultimately, your skis are taking you for a ride, not the other way around.

Now back to your turn. In big radius turns like you demonstrate in the video, you can expect things to develop relatively gradually. It will take a bit of time to develop some force or pressure from the turn. Job one is to establish yourself on the new stance ski. You could lift your inside foot to demonstrate your commitment. Job two is to tip your feet. You should focus on tipping your feet and keeping them under your hips initially. Right now you're trying to take a short cut to angles by dropping inside. Don't drop inside and don't work your feet out away from your body. Just tip and ride over your outside ski.

Think: bicycle going downhill.

I would recommend going back to the books and working through the fundamental balance drills. They may lead to a revelation.

Leo
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:07 pm

Thank you, Leo. Your MAs are always detailed and thoughtful. My first response to your MA was "Yes, but this is gonna take a lotta work!" Believe it or not, I'm pulling that free foot back and tipping it as much as I know how to do. Before the run, I pull my feet back and lift the ski tails to feel the shin pressure I need, as Harald shows in the Essentials videos. Not that I always maintain that, but I have the idea. I'll have to find out what's going on there.

I can describe my one-footed traverses. I can traverse on the big toe edge of the downhill ski, both right and left, with no problem. Traversing on the uphill ski, little toe edge is difficult for me, but possible, on my right foot. Little toe edge traverse on my left foot is not possible for more than a couple of feet. I'm guessing this means tipping to little toe edge in my turns is limited by that factor and I may be trying somehow to work around the limitation. Would you agree?

Another indicator is the drill of tipping the skis on a sidehill. Of course, I can tip them onto the uphill edges, but I cannot keep the downhill ski from just sliding downhill when I try to tip to the "upside-down edges." I use my poles; I keep my weight on the little toe edge of the uphill ski and make the "o" frame as much as I can, but if the slope is more than a degree or two I can't do it, no matter what. On flat snow, no problem.

Where that seems to point is to alignment and I've been hoping that wasn't it, because it's a long way to a PMTS bootfitter and I wouldn't trust anyone else. But if my respected colleagues on this forum think that need to be done, I'll just have to get off my butt and haul it and my credit card to SkierSynergy in Oregon.
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby jclayton » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:34 pm

I think a major impediment to being balanced fore and aft is the stance . You have and exaggerated squat , bending forward at the waist with a collapsed midsection . The skeleton is not supporting the turn forces .

One of the main ways to keep a skeletally stacked body is to " open the hip " . I.e. as you pull BOTH feet back ( to also get rid of the tip lead ) you should feel the quadriceps also moving back with the hip pushing forward on the stance leg . An obtuse angle of the hip is not acheived but it should feel subjectivley like it is .

This will get you more upright and I think will help with other issues .

A good feeling to have is one of supporting your internal organs , don't let them just collapse and float around , use your abdominals to hold them all in place during the turn . This will be impossible in a squat .
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby jclayton » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:38 pm

A good home base is important , in many turns the inside hand drops right down , hanging next to the knee . Keep it up and forward .
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:12 am

Here are some shorter turns shot the day after the other video I posted. Even here, that tip lead starts at turn initiation. Gotta work on that. Anyway, maybe some more help can come from adding this to the MA.

Thanks to you all for the feedback. I think trying to learn this mostly on my own has some drawbacks. I tried to correct an upright stance that didn't let me get enough flexion that limited edge angles, but developed a stance that's too much of a squat. Tried to correct a strong rotation into the turn and end up with defective CA. Tried to correct a pole plant that rotated my shoulders and now I carry my inside hand too low. Sigh! But, with your help I'm already able to imagine a better organized pattern and can't wait to go skiing by myself this week and get started with these revisions. Here's the next video clip:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305q05cfE80[/youtube]
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby jclayton » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:05 pm

Can't get it to link
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby idahorob » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:05 pm

When I put the first video up it didn't seem to embed, but after an hour or so it showed up - twice. I thought this might do the same. Let me try to embed it again and just list the URL also. I cut and pasted it in the browser and it went to the right place on YouTube, so that's the right address.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305q05cfE80[/youtube]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305q05cfE80
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby ToddW » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:58 pm

Bob,

I'd bet a quarter that the single most important move to improve your skiing is to visit Jay or HSS or to attend a camp next season to get aligned. If that's not possible, maybe you can ask Harald to give you alignment advice based on your videos as he's done at times for others.

Here's a quick test. I suspect it's not easy for you to ski over 20 feet straight downhill on a very gentle, nonthreatening pitch (bunny slope) without turning on a flat left ski while the right ski is slightly lifted ... and without making significant upper body movements to rebalance if you lower and then lift the right ski to/from the snow while doing this. My guess is it won't be easy and the left ski will want to turn right. But If you find it easy, then I'm wrong and please ignore me.

Todd
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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby arothafel » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:07 am

When you link to YouTube just put the actual numbers ( 305q05cfE80 ) between the YouTube brackets. Admin has done the rest for us. Here's your video -

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Re: MA for Idahorob

Postby jclayton » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:47 am

Comments on the first video .

When you say you had an upright stance before it sounds like it was because you were pushing up to turn or extending . I think you have gone too far the other way .

I can see a flex to release but in some turns it looks like you extend too soon then go into your squat in the belly of the turn with weight on the inside ski . Almost like you are squatting on the inside ski . You hold this position for a bit before releasing .

In this extension phase you also lose the tails a bit and lean .

You haven’t got a bad release and crossover action but the initial tipping and balance on the edges is not quite there .


Tipping basics rear their head again and again . I reckon you should practice stationary tipping with immediate CB on a slight slope ( essentials page 36 on ) . If you are not balanced you will fall . You have to feel comfortable on the edges . Practice all the relevant drills for this . ( Tipping board also for the fast CB , CA practice )

Then it is a matter of getting your edge change quicker while skiing , while still facing across the slope , and the CB immediate ( with your body , not just your head , he he ) Check second 00.13 , your head is leading the body down the hill . Here while showing your bases up the hill you should have the feeling of the body ( CA ) facing uphill also . To achieve this the CB and CA have to start on the edge change . An excellent drill for this is jumping from edge to edge facing across the slope . If you are out of balance you will fall . ( always good feed back , I don’t know why people place so much importance on not falling )

Your right hand turn ( second 10.00 ) shows a new BTE takeover of the new LTE , the subsequent left turn is much better ( Maybe there is an alignment issue here ) . The foot pull back is too late , you should be thinking about this BEFORE you release and start pull back , both feet , strongly , at the point of release .

Getting back to posture , exaggerate the squat to release as in the boot touch drill . Then feel your body and legs extend through the fall line before the next release . Feel two distinct phases and the subsequent energy build up .
In a brushed carve both legs can extend then both can flex , together . ( In Max 501’s video he demonstrates this very well , always a good reference even though his skiing now is even better ) You can get a better feeling for upper body alignment with your head in line with your spine ,( check Haralds or Max 501’s posture ) . Your cervical spine is arched back .
Then when this extension /flexion difference is a bit more ingrained start relaxing the inside leg to get the outside leg extension in the edge carves .

Judging from your comments you feel you have got a lot of the actions but they are not working in symphony . As always , back to basics .
skinut ,among other things
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