What to consider when posting video

What to consider when posting video

Postby h.harb » Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:20 pm

When you post a video, make clear what you want for a response. Is it technical feedback or overall rating of your skiing level, for example.

Here are some comments about skiing improvement or advice generated from MA on the forum. It is logical that anyone who posts video is asking for help or at least an evaluation. Before you post video you might ask yourself what your motivation is for posting. Is it for validation of what you are already doing, encouragement, true analysis, or a plan for improvement?

Some skiers have a certain amout of ego wrapped around their skiing, so posting can be a risk, as it could dent the ego and self image. Others may have a higher self perception of their skiing then is realistic and therefore getting real feedback will bruise the self esteem. Here is how you can deal with a self esteem issue, if you are vulnerable.

"Set no expectations of how good you are, set only expectations about how good you can become."


Look around and ask yourself, ?Who skis better and how would I like to ski?? If you are at the WC level, you might think you don?t need to worry, if you are satisfied by just getting there, you?re fine, but it doesn?t mean you won?t get advice.

When not to post:If you are posting your skiing and you are already satisfied with your level, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. Don?t post if you are satisfied, as there is always someone better and you can always be better. If you are an advanced intermediate and you think you have arrived, you might find there is still a thing or two you can do to change and improve. If you are sensitive, don?t post video here, as I?m sure no one is perfect.


I critique my own skiing all the time.
I am my own worst critic of my skiing. But I know what I can do, I know what is possible for me to do and I know whether or not the feedback I?m getting from others makes sense. Few skiers are that objective and have that much experience to be stone cold realistic about their skiing. When I find my skiing diminishing due to technical faults, I?ll work on those and improve. When it?s due to physical limitations, I?ll do everything possible to train harder, prepare better, but at some point with age, the body doesn?t respond, no matter how hard you work. I still think to myself, ? I?d hate to have anyone say, ?He stills skis well for a sixty year old or seventy year old. As I get older I?ll have fewer days where I think my skiing is up to my standards, but I intend to be able to ?bring it? for a few days every season, even when I?m in my seventies.



What you should expect
I think anyone who wants to post video on the PMTS Forum should be ready to receive solid, non emotional, specific movement information and that information should be directly tied to turn quality, turn design, ski performance and their skiing goals. I think by-en-large the feedback here has followed this direction. Encouragement based on improvement is valid, as long as it isn?t just fluff, cheerleader type adulation without substance.

What you won't get here:

Here is an example of what doesn't work.
I received a link to video clip and post of someone the other day.
http://video.epicski.com/ma/dc032407.wmv
I think it?s a PSIA skier, either level 1 or possibly level 2. The skiing was bad, I can't believe this was an instructor, with a pin or a skier who had any lessons, let alone training.

All the bad movements you could possibly think of were built into this guy. I felt sorry for him because, I?m sure he makes a real effort to ski well, but his level of skiing will never go anywhere with the movements he has already built in.

This would be a total rebuilding project. It could be done, but he is receiving great reviews about his improvement, from the posters that followed his video, which I also found devastating. As it just puts this guy into the wrong learning mode. He now thinks he made real progress and might possibly be improving. This is typical in PSIA circles, cheerleading, when you only get cheerleading, don?t you figure it out after awhile? I do, I know immediately when someone is blowing smoke.

If this skier posted his skiing here, he would get valuable improvement information. That information would have to be well thought out, as there are so many things going wrong with this skier, that the dartboard approach would actually be valid, you couldn?t miss. It would have to be a PMTS dart board though, as I?m sure the PSIA dart board has been exhausted on this poor guy.

How to evaluate a skier:
It sometimes becomes overwhelming to give skiers feedback, as you have to know where to start. In PMTS as many of you know, we have SMIM. (single most important movement) This directive of movement called SMIM has to be the one movement that will make the biggest difference for skiing change. Finding it is not always easy, as it is not the most obvious, " effect" that is causing the problem. The bases for many gross movements, by gross, I mean ugly, not large, do not originate where you see them or where they are most obvious.

Easy answers not always right:
Some one just told me they were working with a ski school and the instructors in that school were throwing their upper bodies around, rotating and leaning. After some exercises and training with a PMTS approach, it became obvious that they absolutely had no boot, ski tipping skills. So trying to stop wrong upper body movements for example, should not begin with counter balancing exercises. It starts with foot, ankle and ski tipping exercises.

Most PSIA instructors don?t know how to and have never tipped a ski, in fact, they are discouraged from practicing this in many ski schools. They may have an idea about tipping that is different from what we understand and teach in PMTS. But whatever their idea is, it?s not working. I have always said, PSIA can talk tipping, but it doesn?t mean they know how to teach tipping.

I digress, but back to this poor guy, he doesn?t know how to tip, let alone begin to counter balance or counter act. But he is getting great reviews about his improvement there.

Now let me point out where possibly there might be the slightest justification for encouragement in this case, especially if someone still looks like they ski poorly. We have to consoder, and it is possible they may have skied worst, prior to the latest video example. I will grant that, as I never saw the before and after in this case.


The skier might be skiing better then what he was showing before. My response to that is, no way with this skier!! He is on the wrong track, if he was worst before this video, he was done no favors, by bringing him to the next level of worst. He has just deepened his predicament. He is now a better bad skier, strengthening the dead-end movements, that just doesn?t make sense.

Why make someone a better, bad skier. Why follow "A dead end road", when good skiing is available and it isn?t hard to access, if you are dedicated.

How to take lessons:

My warning is don?t take lessons, unless you really know where they are taking you. At least read ?Essentials of Expert Skiing?, it will give you the guidelines, so you won't get sucked down the wrong path. After you read ?Essentials? you?ll be able to identify a fraudulent, misdirected lesson.

Ask, what the instructor has in mind:
Every skier should at least enter a lesson requesting specifically what they want to learn. If the instructor doesn?t ask you what you want to learn , tell him. Actually do more than tell him, ask him how and what, it is, he will teach you. Ask him how this is supposed to get you where you want to go. Without this kind of set up of a lesson, you are likely to be fooled. Ask how many lessons it will take to learn what you want to learn. If the instructor has no logical plan, bail.

Getting to the point:
I?m taking the long way around getting to my point, by providing all these examples. What I want to say is, these things won?t happen here on the PMTS forum. You can expect the best coaching available in skiing, right here. Also, coming soon will be "Essentails" lessons on video from our web site and on DVD. We are filming now.

My favorite attitude about ski learning is one that MAx501 displays. He checks his ego at the door, tells me to rip on him (of course I don?t) about anything I see and put him through the grinder. This approach will yield very fast improvement and success. Most great athletes I?ve worked with have this attitude and if they didn?t have it, I told them they better get it or they were setting their won limitations and lower levels of success..
Last edited by h.harb on Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby jbotti » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:16 pm

Harald, you should make this post sticky and it should at the top so that it is easily available for all that visit the forum. JB.
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Postby ibMED » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:40 pm

Harald,

As I was reading your post, I experienced several different reactions.

Your logic about MA posting and expectations is right on. In this forum, you have treated MA requests with due consideration to the skills and expectations of the requestor. As you point out very clearly, what is obvious and elemental to you, can be very obscure to persons that do not have the same background. With the publishing of Essentials of Skiing, it may be too easy for less talented observers to call out up-unweighting or lack of counter balance, counteracting or leg flexation, when the root causes of problems may not be fully identified. As an example of this, I would offer some of your analysis where you immediately point out alignment and basic tipping issues. Henceforth, I will not post in the area of MA, as I?m more likely to screw somebody up as help.

I?ve come to believe that a couple of seconds of MA video is just too brief and cannot even begin to establish communication between instructor and student. I?m not totally dismissing it and enjoy seeing the PMTS community demonstrating what they are doing. It?s a learning experience. If I really want to improve my skiing, I?ve got to figure a way to put the hours in at Harb camp. This is a goal for 07-08.

Several weeks ago, I posted my dismay about SCSA calling out the skiing of named higher-level instructors at an Epic event. While I am mostly an Epic lurker, the person who is named in your post is an Epic administrator and identified as a Level 2 instructor. I'm uncertain if this was known to you when you posted. There are two Epic MA requests from him. In the first, he?s doing some ok linked turns and getting good feedback with some cheerleading. Some cheerleading exists here also and I would expect this as normal within a skiing community. In the second, he?s struggling while performing spring skiing in bumps, with very little cheering. At first, I wondered if it?s the same person. I felt for him in the bump video as he stated that he just finished teaching 17 never-evers for 2 hours. Probably got paid $20. That would hurt my head! Regardless of his skills, is anything gained by identifying this individual? As you have repeatedly pointed out, PSIA Level 2 skiing is pretty basic and controlled by the organization. I watch Level 2?s at my local hill, and I?d consider him as representative of the peers. If he did not post the MA request here and there are no other issues between the two of you, then I?d like to see his name deleted. That?s the high road.
If you don't know where you're going, any ski turn will get you there!
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Postby Max_501 » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:43 am

ibMED wrote:I?ve come to believe that a couple of seconds of MA video is just too brief and cannot even begin to establish communication between instructor and student.


That's interesting. I'm exactly on the opposite end. It amazes how much we can learn about our skiing by watching a short video clip!
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Postby h.harb » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:45 am

Fair enough, I have no idea who this is. I?ll post the clip, I received, so PMTS forum members can decide for themselves if this is a standard of skiing they would expect, if they were to pay an instructor for a lesson.


http://video.epicski.com/ma/dc032407.wmv
Last edited by h.harb on Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby tommy » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:17 am

if the person in that link indeed is a skiing instructor, regardless of level, then I feel sorry for the state of skiing instruction in North America - no way that kind of skiing would allow you to work as an instructor anywhere in Sweden, not even the tiniest slopes.

--T
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Postby h.harb » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:42 am

Get used to it this is Level 2 PSIA
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Postby h.harb » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:08 pm

IbMed, I wasn?t trying to create a level of communication developed at say, a Harb Ski Systems Camp or a private lesson, as a pattern for the forum. I was solely trying to help skiers realize how and what level of communication they deserve as ski students. To do this on the forum, we would have get into much more in-depth, detailed one-on-one dialogue with each individual poster of video. Even this level of communication however; doesn?t require further ski footage. From these video clips I can determine how the technique demonstrated in short groomed runs, will be applied on bumps and steeps. Coaching thousands of skiers in a career helps.


In the communication phase, I ask what the skier wants to achieve and what they know about their way of moving presently. These clips of skiing posted on the forum, tell me almost everything I need to know about their technique and movement improvement needs.

What helps greatly is to know the skier?s motivation for skiing improvement, how far they want to go and how willing they are to work at their skiing. Then I need to know the level of understanding of their own movements, as that is what is determining their present movements.
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Postby h.harb » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:59 pm

I said it before, I feel bad for the skier on this link. Let?s see if we can help?

First and foremost his boot set up fore/aft and the lateral alignment in the boots are major factors, contributing to his lack of balance. I submit he has a rigid orthothic/footbed and he has rigid feet and ankles. So he needs a different kind of footbed.

He is in the back seat, this is his default position, not a momentary lapse. His tipping comes from pushing his body into a leaning position and rotating the torso to achieve a skidding turn. He has no or almost no flexing and absorbing ability. This again, I suggest is boot related.

He is so locked in this boot, that beginning to correct movements with a tipping routine, would almost be a waste of his time. So before anything can be done let?s get him aligned properly.

Now we can start with a tipping routine. The skier has no tipping ability, there is no lateral stability in the boot. This is achieved with lateral ankle or foot movement, this has to learned it isn?t natural for some people. After the boot work of course, tipping of the ankle and foot inside the boot to create lateral movements starting below the hips rather than everything happening from the upper body will be the challenge. We teach lateral tipping with feet and ankles at our camps successfully. The lack of tipping shows in this skier?s skidding flat ski offering no edge stability on the snow. This reduces or eliminates all balance over the stance ski. So he is at the mercy of body leaning, banking with rotation for control and turning.

This skier has flexibility limitations and in every way I would try to loosen him up with movements starting at the base of the kinetic chain; so the top or higher part of the body can relax and learn to balance over a stable platform.


Next I would address his fore/aft movement capability. Once he is over his boots and tipping let?s give him some timing with bending and flexing, so he can release with an effortless edge change. With a real release he could make turns that would keep up with the bumps. Just these few steps would make a huge difference in this skier. I?m sure this is a dedicated skier, and he could completely change his skiing with a logical, scientific approach to his problems, rather than a crap shot, filled with rotary movements, leg steering and CG pushing.
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Postby ibMED » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:36 am

Harald,
Thanks for the actions you?ve taken with my request to de-personalizing the identify of the skier in the posted link. I don?t know the person, we are on opposite side of the USA. On the Golf Channel a few years ago, they did a series of fixing some of the worst golf swings and asked viewers to self nominate via video. It was fun to watch the development process and perhaps might consider a similar thing in the future.

You did right by providing the in-depth review of his skiing. I don?t know anyplace else where a skier is going to get that level of analysis from a world-class coach. From the old Kung Fu TV series, you probably should call me ?grasshopper?.

A closing thought on this issue. As this is a ?Sticky? it should become one of the most viewed topics on the site. I suggest that you perform some cut and past and combine your original posting with your subsequent MA analysis into a single post and delete/close subsequent posts.
Mike
If you don't know where you're going, any ski turn will get you there!
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Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:18 am

Good suggestion I'll clean up this thread, and just leave the MA response posts, as long as none of the other posters object?
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Re: What to consider when posting video

Postby richk » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:13 pm

To do Movement Analysis, unless you're a PMTS guru, look at the video in slooow motion. Frame by frame then back and forth through the same turn also helps identify the movement pattern in use.

To do this, requires some extra software, in the form of a player to give you this control. V1 Home 2.0 http://www.v1golfacademy.com/v1home.asp) has a free download. For $40 you get even better control over playback. It also has a direct link to youtube, so you can just paste in the URL and it takes care of everything else.

I'm sure other forum members have their own favorite software. Please link to your favorites!

However you do it, you will have some of the experience of being in a camp. You think you were doing A, but your coach shows you frame by frame how your movements were less extreme (or accurate) than you had thought. Skiing when viewed in clips at full speed can look pretty good to the inexpert eye. In slo-mo, observations that might have seemed subtle become glaringly obvious.
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another slo-mo playback alternative

Postby richk » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:23 pm

VLC media player is a free cross-platform player, available at http://www.videolan.org/. It has a couple of really cool features. My favorite is A --> B looping. That is, click the looping button to start the segment you wish to see repeated, then again at the end. It just plays that segment again and again. Then, use the + and - keys to control playback speed.

The player also allows customization of the user interface so you can dump the buttons you don't want and add the non-default ones. Note: View/Advanced controls needs to selected to do the customization.

While it is supposed to load youtube cleanly and directly, I've had trouble making that work. My workaround is to use the Firefox Extension downloadhelper to save the file to the disk, then open the saved file with VLC.

VLC also let's you play DVDs, so now you can watch Harald do those drills in slo-mo.

Others on the forum are more expert about these things than I, but I wanted to get a free alternative out there for slow-motion viewing.
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Re: What to consider when posting video

Postby Max_501 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:44 am

Things to consider for MA -

Does the release start by flexing the outside leg?
Does LTE tipping lead engagement to the new turn?
Are the feet pulled back at transition?
Is the inside foot held back throughout the turn?
Is there enough CB and CA and is the timing right?
Strong inside arm?
Is the pelvis included in the CB/CA movement?
Is the inside leg flexed as the turn progresses?
Does the outside leg extend naturally (no pushing) as the turn progresses?
Does LTE tipping continue throughout the turn?
Is there a pole touch and how is the movement and timing?
Alignment - watch the skis and knees carefully - does anything look like it needs to be tipped in or out?
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