please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby enric » Tue Sep 13, 2022 3:03 am

MA for Enric supershortturns https://youtu.be/G2vB9i5wT2Q
https://youtu.be/1CoA5fQhfhk
Please help me improve my understanding of PMTS with your MA skills..... When my skiing colleagues and I look at this first video it pretty much looks like I am forcefully pivoting my SS skis around every turn....however, I tell them that it is not my intent and that I am not aware of trying to force those turns around....I tell them I am simply trying to correctly implement my new ski technique, i.e. PMTS.......what do you think, is this PMTS? (my skiing clearly looks very different to the skiing of my colleagues, and of myself a few seasons ago for that matter :mrgreen: ) ...is it PMTS at least at the beginner/intermediate level? What are my most obvious mistakes/opportunities for improvement :P ?

both videos are from the same slope but the secod one-front view is at a steeper section, here I am definitely trying to tip more and control speed; in the first one I am trying to produce the shortest turns I can to show my friend my new technique basic moves, so in both cases I am trying to implement my very limited, recently acquired PMTS skills, but with different intents.
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby jbotti » Wed Sep 14, 2022 7:20 am

Flexing into each release is for the most part absent in your skiing (although your extension is far from excessive). If you can eliminate the extension into each release, your short turns will improve dramatically, and they won't look like you are juicing the tails. Our ability/ROM to tip to the LTE easily doubles or more when we are in a more flexed position and this is what you are losing by extending.

I'm sure that extension is rather engrained in your skiing. It will take some time to eliminate it. Start on very moderate terrain and deeply flex into every release. In PMTS we want the legs to shorten into to release and lengthen into the apex of the turn.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby Jeet » Wed Sep 14, 2022 12:44 pm

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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby enric » Thu Sep 15, 2022 9:00 am

thanks Jeet for your kind advise to download and watch the excelent HH tutorial on flexing to release eVideo linked above. This tutorial is truely amazing. I have downloaded several other evideos from the HH library, they are all great, but this one is really topnotch value for money :mrgreen:

Thanks Jbotti for your wise MA, definetely I have plenty of room for improvement in my flexing to release. I think that part of the problem is that while intending to flex the old stance leg to effect the release, I am also trying to produce the new early CBing by raising the new inside hip....and I fear both movements get mixed and/or misstimed and I end up producing the dreaded extension you mentioned earlier. I am sure that with the help of the HH eVideo I just downloaded I will improve this clearly lagging essential in my skiing.

Please everyone, feel free to keep posting on my major mistakes/opportunities for improvement, as I believe my front-view video linked above (especially my short turns in the last 10 seconds of the video, which are pretty close-up) provides excellent instructional MA opportunities for newbies and intemediates to improve PMTS understanding....especially when watching it photogram after photogram over those last 10 seconds....Besides the dreaded extension at release, What do you think are my main mistakes in the other essentials? Which of the 5 Essentials is my SMIM? 8)

I take the opportunity to thank the Forum, HH and Diana for all of your excellent contributions in the form of instructional videos, books, Camps and wise comments that have proven very helpful for me to start changing my old, plateauing TTS skiing into effective PMTS skiing on my own. Looking forward to the start of the new ski season in the Pyrenees. Cheers from Barcelona :)
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby h.harb » Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:34 pm

This is one very simple way to do the analysis of your up or leg extension movement in short turns. Look at the tails or back of your skis at the release. If the ski tails are going uphill, you are twisting, or using a forceful hip movement to move the tails of the skis back uphill.

In a refined PMTS release with a bending of the outside leg, there is no push available to move the tails uphill, but what does happen is the ski tips start to drop down, and the tails of the skis should stay in the same place as they were at the point of release.

Have someone watch you make short slow turns from behind. You can do a one-time release and stop immediately and evaluate your movements. Try to sense what forces you are using, or what muscles you are overusing to force a ski to turn. Remember the "Hold Your Counteracting" part of a PMTS release. And extension and a hip thrust show a lack of "holding your counteracting. The hips should not move, keep the hip in place until the legs under the hip change angles for the new turn. A refined release looks like there is no effort involved because you use gravity and momentum, not muscular efforts to release the ski.

I try to convey the idea that skiing is not a forceful sport if done efficiently, it should be more of a relaxing eccentric outside leg movement to release an edge and a turn. Of course, at higher speeds and quicker turns the muscle reactions become quicker and more forceful but in the correct way, which is to change edges; not to turn the skis.
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Re: MA for Enric supershortturns; What forces am I using?

Postby enric » Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:30 pm

Try to sense what forces you are using, or what muscles you are overusing to force a ski to turn. Remember the "Hold Your Counteracting" part of a PMTS release. And extension and a hip thrust show a lack of "holding your counteracting. The hips should not move, keep the hip in place until the legs under the hip change angles for the new turn. A refined release looks like there is no effort involved because you use gravity and momentum, not muscular efforts to release the ski


:idea: TRY TO SENSE WHAT FORCES YOU ARE USING....

Thanks a lot Harald for your very enlightening comments above. What you describe is what I FEEL I am trying to do In my rear-view video (shot by my friend Dani), that is, increase CA and hold CA until I change edges. As I am doing that I feel a strong winding-up effort in my hips as I am greatly increasing CA efforts until release, then as I release and change edges, I feel a very powerful UNWINDING effect (not active, it is produced naturally/passively) in my hips that greatly helps me fullfil the transition and I am smoothly solving the HighC part of the next turn. What I mean is that in these turns I am definitely not trying (and I am not feeling) any active turning effort on my part, yet I believe very effective turns are produced this way.

Also, I do not intend or feel I am using :oops: GRAVITY or Momentum (I am skiing VERY slowly) as the main mechanism as I would use in a TFR . Hence, my doubt :?: is if this type of turn, which I believe is sort of a Superphantom-brushed turn as I feel I try to transfer balance to LTE of uphill ski and also try to produce slight initial ski angles for slight engagement (as opposed to a TFR or a locked-carved type of turn, obviously it is not a WR turn) is this type of turn a valid PMTS turn :shock: , and if it is, would this be a BPST or what is it? :?: Definitely I believe it is not a steered turn, at least I am sure I am not trying to produce any steering at all, moreover, I am consciously trying to avoid any twisting at release.

:?: Am I OVERUSING the hip windingup-unwinding mechanism? Is it bad?....because I feel this type of turns can be very useful and require very little effort, it is very effective and efficient I believe....and I have come to discover and use it while trying to learn and practice pmts....I mean I never produced this type of turn using TTS technique during my previous 40 skiing years....

I hope my two MA videos above and related concerns are of help as well to other Forum members, as I have learned a lot from the MA requests of other members. Thank you all
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby h.harb » Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:55 pm

I am greatly increasing CA efforts "until release"[, then as I release and change edges,


Not "until release"!!!!!!! Hold CA until you are on your new edges. I see you are trying to hold CA until release. Keep it until after the release is over and you are on the new edges.

Once you have your CA efforts, hold them. In these videos you are unwinding the hips as the releasing movement, to turn the skis. There should be no hip thrust to turn the skis during a release. You are releasing with your hips, with PMTS we release with the feet and legs. This is why your ski tails are going uphill and skidding to the new turn. This will take practice, and it should be learned at a slow speed so you can eliminate any powerful hip movements that you want to keep in control. Go to YouTube and study the video I out there over 12 years ago. The Two-footed release.

Remember, no skier who is learning to move more efficiently should rely on what they are feeling until a coach tells them they are doing it correctly. Feelings never tell you what is actually happening or what you are doing. I use Diana or one of my coaches like Walter to give me feedback when I am working on my skiing. Why, because my brain tells me I do it right, and it can feel right. If I hear the feedback from them both very skilled PMTS coaches, on the hill, I can make the changes immediately. I also use video, I can be my own coach with my video.
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby enric » Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:19 am

I see you are trying to hold CA until release. Keep it until after the release is over and you are on the new edges.

Once you have your CA efforts, hold them. In these videos you are unwinding the hips as the releasing movement, to turn the skis. There should be no hip thrust to turn the skis during a release. [b]You are releasing with your hips, with PMTS we release with the feet and legs. This is why your ski tails are going uphill and skidding to the new turn.[/b]
THANKS A LOT HARALD :D :D
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby ChrisV » Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:13 pm

Very useful feedback here. Instructors and those self-coaching will both benefit from studying this. Kudos to Enric for posting the clips. He's clearly working very hard on his short turns, and short turn MA requests are all too infrequent here. Short turns are...ahem...revealing.
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Re: please provide MA for Enric supershortturns

Postby h.harb » Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:51 am

Short turns expose all of your flaws.
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