Which boot models?

PMTS Forum

Which boot models?

Postby JohnMoore » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:57 am

I've just spent a rather frustrating (albeit enjoyable) 10 days skiing in Fernie, and I remain convinced that my boots (Nordica Grand Prix ST) are doing me no favours, so I'm planning on buying some new ones for my next ski trip. Ideally I would like to be able to come to a Harb Ski Systems alignment clinic to determine definitively what the issues are, but these things don't exist over here in Europe, so that is not really an option. (Part of my frustration is to do with the fact that while I was in Fernie, a Harb ski camp was taking place, but the instructors, Peter Stone and Scott Burns, were unable to fit me in for an alignment session - so near and yet so far!)

So, if I need to go for new boots, which models should I be looking at for my shortlist which conform to HH's prescriptions for lateral vs rotary, and adjustability? I know that he recommends Head, Salomon and Dalbello, but which specific models meet the criteria? I have narrow feet, which is an issue, and I'm an advancing intermediate level skier, 5'11" (180cm), 148lb (67kg). I'm not going to buy anything without trying it, but I would like to be able to build a useful shortlist for next time I'm in a boot shop.

Thanks!

JM
JohnMoore
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Postby BigE » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:22 pm

I like the Rossignol Bandit B2. It has an adjustable tonge to accomodate different arch height, and cuff alignment capability. It is not a very forgiving boot -- it will let you know when you make a mistake.

But, you need a very specific kind of foot to fit it. Apparently low volume, but average-larger heel, as opposed to small heel. Best with a narrower instep.

My wife uses the men's Soft 1. She has a very very narrow instep, which is one feature of this boot that she really likes. It has a much softer flex, so it will be more forgiving.

Apparently the new Nordica lasts are for wider feet, as are Technica and Salomon.

There is a link to a web-site on ts4s that takes you to america's best boot fitters, where they have a list of boots and what type of foot they fit. You may find it useful:

http://www.bootfitters.com/WHO_IT_FITS.htm

Good luck!
BigE
 
Posts: 1519
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Postby Mr. T » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:29 am

Harald Harb answered a question of mine some time ago about PMTS and ski boots and basically gave a hint on which boots they can modify with success and which are not so good. You should take a look at that answer before going out to shop.

I cannot give you any advise for I have a high instep and I am somewhat limited to the brands or models I can choose from.
Mr. T
 
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:57 am
Location: California

Postby JohnMoore » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:43 am

Mr. T wrote:Harald Harb answered a question of mine some time ago about PMTS and ski boots and basically gave a hint on which boots they can modify with success and which are not so good. You should take a look at that answer before going out to shop


Unfortunately it doesn't answer my question. HH said:

"We recommend only the following boots based on our functional testing: Dalbello, Head, Salomon."

These aren't actually boots, they're manufacturers, each of whom make a wide range of different models. Is HH saying that all Dalbello, Head and Salomon boots are recommendable? I doubt it. It would be good to know which models (on the harbskisystems web site he mentions two models of Heads, but nothing about the Edge range, for example, and no Salomons).

John
JohnMoore
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:47 am

JM, There's a reason Harald recommends the boots that he does. Without trashing any particular brand, I have found out from my own personal experience that Harald's advise is worth heeding. I don't know much about Dalbello, but I have owned Salomon and Head boots, and have noticed the difference. If you have narrow feet, a good choice for you might be the Head FR 9.5. I believe that boot is the same last as the N 97, which is made for narrow feet, although I'm not positive about the model designations. I currently ski in the Head TiM103R, which is a more medium volume last. Head is one of the few companies that carries the different last sizes in their performance boot line, and is one of the few options for people with truly narrow feet.
Guest
 

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:53 am

JM, this is Mac, by the way. Sorry for not signing my previous post, but the forum does not recognize my username when I post from my computer at work.
Guest
 

Postby JohnMoore » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:28 pm

Anonymous wrote:JM, There's a reason Harald recommends the boots that he does. Without trashing any particular brand, I have found out from my own personal experience that Harald's advise is worth heeding.


I have every confidence that Harald's advice is worth heeding - I'm just trying to find out a bit more detail about what it is, hence my question about specific models. Thanks for the tip about FR 9.5, it's one I'd earmarked to try out.

John
JohnMoore
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Postby HH » Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:46 pm

Hi Guys,

You are right the three boot companies we recommend have many models and different configurations. It is difficult for me to advise skiers unless I have more specifics about foot dimensions, so I refrain from giving specific recommendations. Salomon makes the Course line which is very narrow, most B width feet will do fine in it. Head has the 97 in two stiffnesses and it is for a B width. The 103 is for most C and some D sizing. The Dalbello CRX fits most C width feet. They change next season except Salomon, so this applies to only the 2003-04 models. These boots although mostly for narrow feet have different skiing characteristics, again for this reason I don't recommend specific models for skiers unless I can evaluate and measure their feet.

Hope this helps! HH
HH
 

Boots for Narrow feet - My experience with Boots

Postby John Mason » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:51 pm

I had been in a rotary boot design - a Lange. I have a narrow foot and went to ski on opening weekend in Colorado in October. All the snow that a-basin and copper had blown melted in a warm week so I did an even better thing. I scheduled a footbed session with HH and Diana with my son. Best thing I've done for my skiing. My son ended up with Heads because that fit his feet best and I ended up with Delbello's because they fit my feet best.

If you can - schedule a boot fitting session or go to a camp to get your boot/alignment/footbed checked out.

I believe the answer to the question of limiting the brands to Salamon/Head/Dalbello is that their whole line of boots is lateral in design and not rotary.

A rotary boot is a design goal in some circles (you'll see this mirrored in some non-pmts instruction books) in that if you push your weight into your shins the boot will turn inward. If your goal is wedging or stem entry to turns, this would be a good design goal. But if your goal is turning by riding the ski through a turn letting the ski turn you rather than you turning the ski, then you would want a boot that is a lateral design - ie one that stays neutral as the ankle if flexed.

For me, swithing from the Lange rotary design to the Dalbello lateral design, showed up in skiing when the terrain had bumps where I would shorten and lengthen my stance to accomodate the bumps. With the Lange rotary boots it was difficult to keep the skis from not wanting to cross their tips in extreme bumps. After switching to the Dalbello's the bumps became neutral in terms of turning forces.

I see that Peter likes the langes in this years reviews. Perhaps not all Langes are Rotary in design.

In my case they were. My langes were donated to skiing science where they were dissected at a boot camp. May they rest in peace :!:

Alignment is the foundation. Without the foundation everything else is needlessly difficult. (and given boots can vary too much in manufacturing differences so a given foot bed may not be proper moving it to a new boot)
John Mason
 
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:52 pm
Location: Lafayette, Indiana, USA

Head Freeride 9.5 last

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:02 am

FYI - just be aware that the FR 9.5 comes in two lasts, the 103 (medium) width last and a 97mm last. I have not seen the 97 last in the mens but know that it is at least available in the womens version of the FR 9.5.

If in doubt check on the back of the boot near the flex adjustment and you should find the last designation (at least there was a sticker on my 9.5). I have a narrow heel and a medium width forefoot and do not find the fit of the FR 9.5 to be too far off though I suspect the Head 97mm last would work better for me (perhaps with a little shell work in the mid-foot).

However, if possible I would try and demo any boots you are interested in. I've skied in 4 boots this season and each had a far greater influence on my skiing than changing skis ever did. Forward lean, ramp angle, cuff height, fore-aft stiffness, flex pattern etc. all have a dramatic impact on your skiing. I haven't got it dialled in right yet and will definitely try to get to see Harald or one of those he has trained in the next 12 months.


Good luck!
Mike
Guest
 

Boot Fit

Postby Rookie » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:53 pm

We have all seen the posts about boot fit - and the need to be in a lateral boot vs rotary. However, as Harald mentions in this thread - most of the boots seem to be on the narrow side.

What options exist (lateral boots) for the person who is an E or EE width?
Harald, what do you do for folks in come into your shop who have such feet?

Maybe you can influence Head to design something a bit wider for those of us with plump feet... :)

Rookie
Rookie
 

Postby piggyslayer » Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:39 pm

We have all seen the posts about boot fit - and the need to be in a lateral boot vs rotary. However, as Harald mentions in this thread - most of the boots seem to be on the narrow side.


I have wide feet and ski in Dalbello CRX (got them from Harald's shop).
I also think some Salomon boot models are wide (at least they used to be couple of years back) and, I think, lateral.
Piggy Slayer
let the piggy breathe
piggyslayer
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: New Jersey

Postby -- SCSA » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:11 am

piggy,

How do you like your Dalbello's?
-- SCSA
 

Narrow Boots

Postby johnk » Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:18 pm

JM,

I also have narrow feet and I bought a pair of Head FR 9.5 boots with the 97 last at the Copper Mountain Camp in December. They fit well and with some adjustment I found that they helped me a lot during and after that Blue/Dark Blue camp. I recommend them. Good luck with your search.
johnk
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:28 pm
Location: Fairfax Station, VA

Postby piggyslayer » Mon Mar 01, 2004 8:04 pm

Replying to SCSA about Dalbellos.
I use the "ski" setting, do not like "carve" any more.
I used to like a soft forward flex, now it seems l like my boots stiff
so now I wonder how would a stiffer boot feel.

They are a bit small and I blame them for getting frost bite this year :).

Overall, I do like them, how do you like yours?

Do you know how to get parts for Dalbellos?
Piggy Slayer
let the piggy breathe
piggyslayer
 
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:27 pm
Location: New Jersey

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron