what is the "strong arm"?

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what is the "strong arm"?

Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:21 pm

Is it the kid :twisted: in 4th grade who always took my lunch money? :cry:
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Postby Bluey » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:55 am

gravity,

The Strong Arm Position is only "briefly" mentioned in Books 1 & 2. namely, ...........
There are only about 2 paragraphs in book 2 ( I refer you to Pg 110 & Pg 135).........


( Oops !! ...late edit to the above. viz. most of the components/cues of the Strong Arm position are described in book 1 on page 134 except the term "Strong Arm Position" is not explicitly stated......if that makes sense. Apologies for this inaccuracy).


However, there are 2 pages of good stuff/explanations in the Instructor Manual on the Strong Arm position ( pages P-108 & P-109 ).......(Book 2 specifically referred to the Strong Arm position being describe more fully in the Instructor Manual so that's why I bought the Instructor Manual).

As I'm not an instructor, & for those who don't have the Instructor Manual, my layman's brief explanation/paraphrase from the manual for the ( Inside ) Strong Arm position is follows:
1. Get Home Base Position right first viz. .....
*The hands/pole grips should be at about chest height ie kept high
*The pole tips should be positioned just ahead of the bindings toe piece.
( Generally the hands are kept wide except in steeps where they will be a little closer in to the body )

*Also, wrists are used to swing the pole. Try to keep the arms & shoulders still.
*The poles moves early and with the turn. Don't use a late pole plant.
Keep the pole plant flowing..........the hand should be moving the top of the pole over the tip after the pole plant........( by way of note, on easy slopes a plant isn't necessary rather just a touch of the tip onto the snow is all that's required to signal/coordinate the Release).

OK enough of the prelim.....

2. Here's a summary of the inside strong arm position stuff.....
Early pole swing.
Pole touch signals Release
Move new inside hand forward after Release
During the turn, keep hand and pole grips chest high and forward...don't let them drop below hips or drop backwards ......and ( this is the other really important bit) keep the pole shaft at 90 degrees to the ski's "angle" during the turn ( knuckles up)......such that the inside pole shaft looks like its sticking out sideways pointing upwards towards the hill. ( Don't drag the inside pole tip in the snow). At the end of the turn the inside pole should be back at Home Base.
Keep the ( next ) pole plant flowing....refer above

That's it. Fairly simply.

Its good for icy conditions/steeps as it helps with angulation without resorting to hard edging.



Bluey
Last edited by Bluey on Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby jclayton » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:50 am

I found the Strong Arm idea worked for me when I thought of doing a biceps curl with the arm parrallel to the ground .
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skinut ,among other things
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Postby ~gravity » Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:46 pm

I asked a friend who is a PMTS'er this question.

He explained it as the perceived lifting of the inside arm at the end of the turn. It's perceived to be a lift when it is actually the torso above the pelvis making a slight curvature toward the falline (read actively moving down the hill.) This action of the torso causes a lifting of the inside/uphill arm.
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Postby Guest » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:11 pm

gravity,

As stated in my earlier post, one of the external cues to checking whether I'm doing the inside Strong Arm Position correctly is that the pole shaft of the inside ( uphill ) pole is kept at 90 degrees to the changing ski angles throughout all of the turn, not just at the end.

In addition, throughout all of the turn, the hands / arms need to be in the right positions and, generally speaking, the other external cues are that the knuckles of the inside arm will be facing up so as to achieve the 90 degrees. The inside hand will be constantly forward of the hips and kept high throughout all of the turn.

One of the outcomes of the inside strong arm is to get better/easier edge control in longer/faster carved turns......so the best results come from working on it throughout all of the turn, not just at the end of a turn. The other idea/advantage is that upper body movement ( torso) is minimised and so better control over balance is achieved.

I'm not sure how to explain this better....

Maybe others have some thoughts on this.....??
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Postby Bluey » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:15 pm

gravity,

sorry.... that was me replying above.......I thought I had logged in but it didn't stick. Frustrating isn' it

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Postby -- SCSA » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:18 pm

This is a good one too!

gravity, et al,

The pole positioning has really helped my skiing this year. Like Bluey so nicely described, that's where I keep my poles. Shorter version of Bluey's great description (way to go, Bluey!).

1) two knuckles up
2) no dragging poles
3) pole tips can't fall behind the heal piece.

This has really helped my skiing. Particularly, moving the new inside hand forward (just a bit -- so I can see the first 2 knuckles).

When you do 1, 2 and 3, your hands naturally end up in an aggressive position. I guess, kinda like what you see racers do.

I'm tellin ya. This stuff really works great!

Be cool,
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Postby gravity » Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:02 am

I checked it out yesterday at Aspen.
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Postby nick » Fri Feb 27, 2004 4:32 pm

-- SCSA wrote:This is a good one too!

gravity, et al,

The pole positioning has really helped my skiing this year. Like Bluey so nicely described, that's where I keep my poles. Shorter version of Bluey's great description (way to go, Bluey!).

1) two knuckles up
2) no dragging poles
3) pole tips can't fall behind the heal piece.

This has really helped my skiing. Particularly, moving the new inside hand forward (just a bit -- so I can see the first 2 knuckles).

When you do 1, 2 and 3, your hands naturally end up in an aggressive position. I guess, kinda like what you see racers do.

I'm tellin ya. This stuff really works great!

Be cool,


Which knuckles? I'm not clear on this. Does the strong arm involve a slight movement of the upper body toward the new turn direction as you move across the falline? I'm not clear on this either.
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Postby Bluey » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:26 pm

Hi nick,

I'm not quite sure what your confusion is........ but I think, the answer is that, the knuckles you need to concentrate on most, are the inside hand knuckles.
The inside hand is part of the inside "strong arm" position.

I think what SCSA is referring to when he says he wants to be able to see the first 2 knuckles is that ....during a turn, he's trying to visually see just the first two knuckles of his inside hand ( index & big finger knuckles).

If he can see those than, firstly IMHO, he knows his hand is sufficiently forward enough ( ie don't let it drop behind....keep it in front of you) and secondly, if you can see not only the first knuckle but also the second knuckle of the inside hand then the ski pole SHAFT is probably, approximately, close to the 90 degree angle to the ski angles, ie the ski pole SHAFT should now be pointing away from your body and towards the uphill part of the slope.

SCSA may want to jump in here and correct me but that's what I thought he was trying to say....the knuckles act as a kinda external cue........1 knuckle is too little , 2 knuckles is about right ( near enough to 90 degrees).....3 knuckles is too much, ie the pole basket will be unnecessarily too high....wasted effort and throws out the upper body angle.


As to your last point about upper body movement towards the new turn direction as you cross the fall line.... IMHO, there is no intentional movement in this direction other than anything you need to do, dynamically naturally, to keep your body generally centred fore/aft over the boot and your weight, generally, in a downward vertical alignment towards the the boot..... so as to optiminally bend the stance ski.
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Postby milesb » Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:46 pm

Just a note, I used to be so focused on hand position that it gave me unnecessary tension. Now I try to keep them in a general area, which allows for more flow.
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Postby Bluey » Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:02 am

Hi milesb,

Yeah, you're right about getting the hands into a comfortable position and just working on keeping them there...........I don't think you can ski "properly" if you're constantly consciously checking to see if evey part of your body is in the right place....for me, skiing is a best enjoyed when I let my body take over and my mind gets to be the navigator.......if you know what I mean.......when I let go, and let my body and my ski do the work, ...then, if eveything else is where its supposed to be, then....... I'm in heaven......

On a more cerebral note,......the reason I like PMTS is that when my skiing is not working the way it should be, then getting back to basics is fairly straight forward...I can check out stuff like my Release or my Strong Arm etc.

The various external clues that I've learnt thru PMTS help me to quickly zero in on the areas that have become unintentionallyrusty...... until someome in PMTS pointed out to me exactly where my hands/knuckles should be I was confused by so much contradictory and inaccurate advice from others ......Pole use is fairly basic.... if you follow the basics.


Anyway, enough of this,....... for me, before I start a run, one of the things I do is to I make sure the my hands are consciously alert to role they are about to play.......after that, its left to my body/feet to go with the force..... Have fun.....
RTE...
RTE...
RTE...
RTE....


Bluey

Last one down's......
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