interesting "tipping" problem

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interesting "tipping" problem

Postby jclayton » Sat Jan 31, 2004 1:24 pm

I have just been skiing in Spain and had some friends video a couple of runs . To my surprise ( its always uncomfortable seeing your own videos ) I was tipping my interior knee a lot more into the turn than the exterior one , not just at the beginning but for most of the turn . The turns felt good but there is obviously something wrong .

I have been concentrating a lot this year on getting the inside knee over early but I thought the outside leg would follow the correct path passively .

Any Ideas ?

Bemused J.C.
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Postby Mac » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:00 am

Sounds to me like you're thinking too much about the knee itself. Instead of rolling or pointing your knee, try concentrating on what your feet are doing. When you release your downhill edge to start your next turn, think about pulling this foot in towards your new stance ski and tipping that ski to the little toe edge. This will cause some slight separation of the new inside knee to the direction of the new turn, but not to the point where it will be real obvious. Try concentrating on this while you have a friend video you, and see if you can spot the difference. You should have the same good results that you mentioned without some of the akwardness. This is just some stuff that I've picked up from HH's books and videos. Let me know if it works for you.
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Postby Mac » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:09 am

Just another thought. The inside leg will almost always have more bend at the knee to allow for angulation and the pitch of the slope, while the outside leg will tend to be straighter and more extended to keep pressure on the outside or downhill ski. Don't confuse the bend that is necessary of the inside knee with excessive knee pointing.
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Postby hh » Sun Feb 01, 2004 10:03 am

Great advice Mac, exactly what I would have said. Need a job teaching skiing? In the final analysis, everything goes back to what your feet are doing or what they should be doing. You can feel pressure side to side and also overall stance pressure under your feet and to the side of the ankles. The knees don?t and can?t possibly give you feedback about ski angle or ski direction, your feet are much more precise. Your feet have the closest position to ski direction.

I use "tip the knee" only when nothing else works, but I go right back to the feet after some improvement is achieved.

If you are trying to tip the boots skis or feet and you are still noticing that the inside knee is too tilted try focusing on pressure distribution from inside to outside foot. Look for earlier pressure on the big toe edge to negate the inside knee coming on too early or too strong. This is a problem most skiers would like to have. If you still notice the inside knee to open you have to re-check alignment. It usually indicates bow legged alignment.
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Postby Mac » Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:05 pm

HH, it's much more likely that I'll be calling you for a lesson instead of a job, but I appreciate your offer. Now if I could only convince my wife that I know what I'm talking about, but I guess that would be kind of like trying to teach her how to drive (better left to someone else)! Seriously, I will sometimes roll my outside knee into the turn, but only after I've maxed out the angulation available through my ankle, and this doesn't happen very often. I didn't want to bring this up as I was afraid that it would just cloud the issue, and possibly open up another can of worms.
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Postby jclayton » Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:21 am

Tried the above advice with some success and also noticed that my stance foot was quite tense so I tried relaxing it as well entering the turn with tangible results .

How conscious should one be of the stance foot . I noticed that I concentrated on the free foot and was not even aware of the stance foot as it went along for the ride . Should I also consciously articulate the stance ankle as well or will it articulate automatically ( if relaxed ) . I have not had anyone video me yet so I cant tell if there is a visible change .
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Postby *SCSA » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:54 pm

I had the same problem, getting a little A frame. I found that I was starting to tip, but then "stalling."

Like always, anytime there's a problem, I just pull out my "2" book or video.

Somewhere in there HH says, "Tip a little to start the turn, more as you're moving through the turn, then really crank that little toe over to finish the turn. If you keep tipping the free foot over, the stance foot won't get in the way."

The description goes something like that.

It solved my problem. If you stop tipping, the stance foot knee can bend in and cause the A frame stance. But if you increase tipping, while pulling the free foot back as you move through the turn, it doesn't happen. Because, the stance leg will stay even with the free foot leg until tipping stops. Once tipping stops, then stance leg can have a tendency to bend inwards -- A frame.

Does that make sense?

And isn't it great, that you can post a question here and we all talk the same lingo? I think it is!

Be cool,
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Postby jclayton » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:34 pm

SCSA,
my problem has actually been the opposite , I tip my free foot much more than my stance foot , er... actually I think a gap appears between my knees .

I have been aligned by Harald so thats not a problem but I thought maybe my stance foot didn't tip enough because it was too tense and I often crank it right over at the finish .

Could it be that I keep my legs too flexed through out the turn , Harald mentions straightening them out at the bottom ,I think ,or is it when pointing directly down the fall line .

J.C.
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Postby Harald » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:21 pm

Jclayton, sometimes stance width has something to do with what you are describing. In the transition when you flex to release, the knees maybe further apart than the feet. If you keep the skis the same width as the knees in flexion, your stance side knee will seem less tardy to match up. Another reason for the gap between your knees maybe because you are holding the stance foot flat (in transition) too long before engaging the stance ski. If you focus on moving your feet to keep your skis at the same angles you may have to either slow down the free foot knee side or speed up the stance foot knee side. If neither of these suggestions works, you maybe seeing your tibia varum showing (curve of the tibia). I notice this on my left tibia at times although my curve is mild.
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Postby Jeff Markham » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:00 pm

*SCSA wrote:And isn't it great, that you can post a question here and we all talk the same lingo? I think it is!

I agree! Pre-PMTS, I had no vocabulary at all to describe my skiing. I had heard of the "w*dge" thing, but that was about it. Not to be overly dramatic, I was somewhat like Helen Keller -- I mean no disrespect here -- before she met Annie Sullivan and was taught a language. I can't begin to even imagine how Ms. Keller conceptualized without words. Prior to my exposure to PMTS, I certainly couldn't even begin to understand why I wasn't skiing well or how I might ski better, much less communicate effectively with others. PMTS provided the unambiguous terminology and concepts to help me think about skiing and communicate with the other PMTSers.
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Postby Harald » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:36 pm

Jeff, you must be clairvoyant!! Right on, now that?s deep!!
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