wide or narrow stance

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wide or narrow stance

Postby j clayton 2 » Thu Oct 30, 2003 12:41 pm

In Haralds books he refers to the gorrilla stance and recommends keeping a narrow stance to maintain better balance etc.. , this sounds and feels logical . However , looking at Ron LeMasters photos in his web site, competition skiers have a very wide stance at transition . Is this because it would be too slow to narrow, then widen, the stance when in the power phase and does this require too much athleticism for the recreation skier ? Is there something I am missing in these photo sequences ( they are good to look at ) ?
j clayton 2
 

Postby Mr. T » Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:19 am

I think that if you refer to the downhill race, clearly their stance when
going straight is wide, wider than we are taught. But at speeds approaching or exceeding 80mph your first concern has to be equilibrium.

However, if you look at the skiers when they make turns, the distance
between their skis and boots may look wider than it really is. In fact, if you look at the distance between their legs, you will notice that they
are actually using a closer stance than their skis and boots may reveal.
This is because, due to their speeds they turn using high angles, or much
more leaning into the turn if you want, and so one leg is almost extended
and the inside leg is instead flexed. But if you look up the chain you will
see that their stance is not so wide as it looks.

I am sure that Harald will tell you in a more accurate way.
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Postby jclayton » Sat Nov 01, 2003 1:58 pm

Thanks for your reply , I can see your point about horizontal separation versus vertical separation during the turn . However during the transition sometimes the skier ( eg Bode in the Ron leMaster photos ) is in a sitting position while floating with legs at the same vertical level but seperated more than hip width . Check out Ron's website , I don't agree with some of his ideas but the photo sequences are attractive .
skinut ,among other things
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A-frame

Postby captain » Wed Nov 12, 2003 6:08 pm

Kinda interesting that, if you apply the a-frame rule on these photos, you will see that the lines always have a point of intersection. Could have something to do with it.
Captain
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Stance

Postby aRK » Sat Nov 15, 2003 6:34 pm

It would be reasonable to suggest that if they are carving their skis in concentric arcs throughout linked turns that the stance would have to be wide thru neutral to allow for enough seperation when in the power zone where there is closure of the leg shafts due to the hip/leg/base parallelogram folding inward. I'd think it less efficient to waste resourses (focus, balance, energy) to cosmetically manipulate the stance narrower at neutral when you know you then need to expend more resources to get the inside leg out of the way to where it will need to be a fraction of a second later when the relationship gets really critical.
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stance width too wide too narrow

Postby h.harb » Sat Nov 29, 2003 7:20 pm

?What is too Wide and What is Narrow?

In an effort to define ?What is too Wide and What is Narrow?, and to determine your own most efficient stance width, you must define the extremes. Let?s have a look at Stance width, what is functional and what is philosophy?

My clients and customers come to me with much philosophy about skiing. They picked up these philosophies over a period of time from ski lessons, articles and books. I can only say based on this information, that there is much confusion in the ski teaching world and there are many skiers confused as a result. I?ll list below some of the topics that attract interpretation that might not be accurate. Much of the misinformation about these topics developed and evolved through philosophies, rather than facts. People?s personal opinions have frequently turned into skiing techniques and dogma, rather than developing from the actual facts that govern skiing. Philosophies that create confusion seem to dominate the sport, for ski instructors and skiers alike, some areas of confusion revolve around these skiing topics:

? Stance width (topic of this article)
? Weighting the inside ski
? Edging
? Countering, square or rotating the body

I will present practical information based in fact for all of these topics over the winter and I hope skiers will become involved in expressing their ideas. Stance width is so controversial it is a great place to start. There is a great deal of misunderstanding and confusion amongst skiers, instructors and coaches about the right stance width.

Let?s first look at some facts regarding stance width:

? A skier with a stance wider than their hips has to move the center of the body or center of gravity, also know as the center of mass, farther to move it from one side of the skis to the other, to achieve effective body angles.
? It is more difficult to focus balance on the downhill ski with a wide stance.
? It is easier to lose your balance to the inside ski with a wide stance.
? Unless you are a high speed skier (over thirty miles and hour) it is difficult to use the turn forces to move the body from one turn to the next in a wide stance.
? A wider stance makes the skier more knock kneed "A" framed.

None of these situations improves your skiing ability. Most of my clients are so comforted when they hear from my instructors and coaches that they don?t have to worry about widening their stance at our clinics. They tell us that all they hear when they take ski lessons is ?widen your stance?. I think coaches and instructors have gone overboard with widening skiers? stances and the results are terrible. I think partly instructors are lost and have nothing worthwhile to say or use to improve a skier?s skiing, so they harp on the stance width issue.

I recommend that skiers who have little or no balance, narrow their stance to shift balance more easily. I consider narrow about four to eight inches apart depending on the size or width of the skier?s hips. Many instructors focus incorrectly on a skier?s shoulders to determine stance width. Skiers at different stages in their skiing development may want to narrow their stance and learn movements with their ski boots together or touching. Once they have the ability to move from one ski to the other and balance on the new stance ski to begin turns they can relax the stance width. I rarely see recreational skiers balancing properly and that is mostly due to the width of the stance (too wide), the result is too much weight carried on the inside ski.

Opinions are welcome
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