Pole Plants in pure carved turns ?

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Pole Plants in pure carved turns ?

Postby tommy » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:03 am

Bluey wrote:

[Anyway, I digress, .......I think the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle for me is the pole plant and controlling my Upper Body movement....I'm kinda weak in this area now.....originally I used my poles a lot but as my balance developed I kinda stopped using them....in fact, I enjoy the sense of flying down the slopes just using my balancing skills to float my way down ....but now that I want to tackle bumps and the bigger steeps I know I need to get my pole plant coordinated and get more control over what my Upper body is doing.]

I don't have any advice to offer, but a follow up question: it appears to me that when doing pure carved turns (or at least, as "pure" as I can manage), there is not much of pole plants involved. For me, in this type of turns, I focus on keeping my hands in "home base", and the upper body facing down the fall line, but the poles tend to "just follow". On the other hand, when doing turns with some amount of skidding, like when doing very short turns in bumps or steeps, the use of pole plants becomes essential for me.

Also, after watching Video 2 numerous times, it seems to me that Harald puts much of the pole emphasis in the section of short turns, while in the carving section poles are not mentioned.

Anyone having any thoughts on this topic ?

--Tommy
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Postby Erik » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:26 am

There is no pole plant when carving. If you are doing that, your upper body will rotate into a weak incorrect position. In the worst case, the upper body can look like an agitator in a washing machine, with the arms swinging around. Ski with your legs!

HTH.
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Postby -- SCSA » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:53 am

In these big GS turns (I call them the airplane look) that have become so popular, okay, poles aren't as important.

But who wants to make those kind of turns anyway? Those are wanker turns!
-- SCSA
 

Postby Erik » Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:40 am

Amazing as it seems, some people like to ski fast.
Erik
 

Postby jclayton » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:23 pm

I have to agree with Erik , but maybe SCSA means what a lot of people call park and ride turns which are not flowing GS turns . Anyway SCSA how about some clarification . A lot of wanking goes on in all areas of skiing .
skinut ,among other things
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Postby -- SCSA » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:41 pm

In those big turns, poles maybe aren't as important. I'm not saying poles aren't important. But if there's a place where you can get away with no poles or lazy poles, it's the big GS turns.

I see so many skiers making these big turns -- holding their arms like they expect to take off or something. If they want to ski that way, fine. That's not the point here.

What I'm saying, is how important poles are. On steep slopes and in the bumps, in powder.

Sure, there's always someone who comes forth with claims of all mountain mastery, sans poles. So what's the big deal? I'm sure there's someone out there that ski just fine while standing on their head, too!

Poles are really important in PMTS and that's my only point.
-- SCSA
 

Postby Bluey » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:30 am

What about pole use in icy conditions?

I get a lot of icy conditions from time to time Down Here...not bullet proof stuff but sheets of ice or else large patches which are difficult to spot as you come over a rise.

My strategy is the keep my turns short and go gentle on the edging ( read : don't slam on the brakes )......also I try to keep my ears alert for the sound ( read chatterring ) of my skis.

But as for pole use, this is an area I'm uncertain about in ice.
Poles don't dig too well into ice so I find it difficult to have confidence in them to provide assistance with balance when initiating a turn ?

Any thoughts??



Bluey



Last one down's a dirty snowball !!
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Postby -- SCSA » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:37 am

Bluey,

If you're wondering about pole use and PMTS, you're not getting it. Work on getting better with your poles, not figuring out when and where to use them.

We may be ready for an HH intervention here, but I've been training with him for now 5 years. I've never once heard him de-emphasize pole use and the importance of same. Like I say, it's possible to make good turns without poles. But that doesn't mean it's good skiing.

Now that being the case, if you don't want to use your poles -- that's the freedom of skiing. I mean, it doesn't matter how you get down the hill, as long as you don't run into anyone!

As far as ice goes, never turn on ice. Let your skis glide over ice and pray like hey they don't slip out from underneath you!

"Be cool -- drive a small car"
-- SCSA
 

short story on poles use

Postby h. harb » Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:40 am

We don't really make a pole plant when carving on groomed. This type of turn is similar to GS turns. Use the strong arm as in the PMTS Instructor Manual and exercises from book 1&2. Omit the pole swing and pole plant. Moving the strong arm into a stronger position during the turn is very effective as it increases angulation. Lifting or raising the strong arm through the turn and especially at the end of the turn before beginning the new turn is also a powerful move.

This has been accepted racing technique since the Mahres and still holds true today, check Bode and the rest of WC group for images.
Remember most people are not aware of their hand position. You have to really focus on the postion and where you hold your hands or arms, to make positive changes.
h. harb
 

Postby Bluey » Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:07 am

Did some more reading during the day and found in the "Books" that the advice on : edit - skiing icying conditions - end edit: is to
keep your turns short;
keep your poles flowing and quick and
slightly ie slightly repeat slightly move your body inclination towards the stance foot. I guess the latter point is to not over do the edging.

If I hit ice patches after I've started a turn, then, as Harald suggests, using the Strong Arm position will keep my poles out in front which will assist with the continous pole planting and as such my balance .


Thanks for the input.



Bluey
Last edited by Bluey on Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:39 am

While playing with wide sweeping turns ...extra large GS style turns, I find that in addition to keeping a rock solid frame with the upper body and playing with the uphill arm as Harold describes, the release with one's feet can act as the "pole plant" in as much as it can define the transition like a pole plant in short swing turns.

I love the power in these turns. You can really feel the energy getting stored for the release into the new turn. I almost want to yell with joy when I get to the end of a turn.

Skiing a bowl with mank and saucer sized plates of snow following you down the slope is too much fun when you're making extra large GS turns. Think Rustler at Alta. Yummy. :D :D
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