Boot cuff alignment.

[Erik]

I've asked on the gear forum, and was directed to ask over here as well:

I am strongly leaning towards using the boot cuff alignment adjustment to assist the tracking of the knee over the foot, as opposed to centering the tibia in the cuff. The idea being to align the frame so that the forces generated by the skier are directed through the ski, not at some weird angle.

IIRC, from weightlifting that during a squat the each knee should track just slightly towards the big toe. Certainly not between the legs, and certainly not towards the outside of the foot. I am very aware that this may be contrary to the skiers natural stance. But, I observe that when I lift very heavy things, the knees are always over the feet.

You'll hurt yourself if you lift knock kneed or bowlegged. I cannot help but think you'll hurt yourself skiing that way too...

[rookie]

I too would appreciate some thoughts on alignment in the boot. I have some Techicas with Dual Pivot and I question whether I have them set up properly.

I'm knocked kneed - particularly on the right leg (one footed balance is difficult - I push to the inside). I have read elswhere on the net (various bootfitting sites) - that canting really should not be done with the boot, that the adjustment is simply to fit the boot to your leg shape. True canting should be done with Shims. And I have a pair of Pilots - which prevent shims - bummer

Expert set up advice is not easy to come by in Cincy, OH!

One more... anybody ski with Zip FIts?


Rookie

[tommy]

Rookie wrote: [True canting should be done with Shims. And I have a pair of Pilots - which prevent shims - bummer ]

Rookie,

I don't know what pilots are, and thus this reply might be irrelevant, but in order to cure a similar problem, I put (using tape) a tiny piece of plastic to act as a wedge, directly under my boot heel (not under the binding). I've now skied 4 days with this arrangement, and it works beutifully: it cured my problem, which was that in right turns, I couldn't edge the free (right) foot enough to little toe edge.

--Tommy

[-- SCSA]

Hi Rookie,

I love my Zipfits. I have the SideWinder, in leather. I'd never ski in anything else.

[h.harb]

I probably explain the concept of cuff canting ten times a week. For the record, cuff canting doesn?t have any positive influences on your skiing, unless you have high tibial varum, which is curve in the tibia. In this case, you move the cuff away from the leg to center the leg. If you move the cuff toward the leg to increase edging it causes problems. Move the cuff toward the leg and it pre-loads the boot and reduces ankle and foot function. Moving the cuff away from the leg reduces leverage and edging power, even in bowlegged skiers.

Cuff canting is one of the prime examples of Ski Industry marketing, as it is a virtually useless method to align the legs properly over the feet. Boot companies have used the words ?Cuff canting? to fool the public and it looks like with some ski shops and skiers they are succeeding.

World Cup Ski racers have no cuff canting adjustments. Racing boots from Lange, Nordica, Salomon etc don't have cuff adjustments. If the leg is curved they adjust the cuff and bolt it in place, to center the leg in the boot. If there were advantages for edging or grip by moving the cuff they would have done it years ago, especially in a sport where hundreds of sconds count.

The history of canting goes like this, when the public became intrigued by canting the marketers at the boot companies had to respond with something because they have no useful solutions. In this case the marketers jumped on it and invented words that confuse the canting function.

Canting is done under the boot to tilt the whole boot. Simple, finished, over, that?s it, and anything else is manufactured by the marketers to sell ski boots.

[Guest]

Erik,

I hope you see Haralds reply , it's what I suspected all along .

SCSA

I have just had some Strolz liners fitted in Austria , how do they compare to `Zipfits' ?

[h.harb]

We used to carry and were big suporters of Zip Fit, but we no longer do because the quality and fit did not meet our customer's needs. We are now supplying Comformable foam injection liners. Diana is using one now and finds it very supportive and comfortable. It has increased her edging power without sacrificing comfort.

[Erik/BigE]

Thank you Harald. You have confirmed what many have stated:

"You align the cuff to center the leg in the boot."

This was also confirmed by a podiatrist a met recently. According to the podiatrist, if the cuff is tilted too far to the outside, the outer quadriceps will be worked preferentially to the inner quads. Consequently the knee cap will be pulled to the outside. It's not healthy when the knee cap no longer tracks properly in its groove.

I know this is true, as it did happen to my left leg, when I moved the boot cuff too far out. Sauna and stretching relaxed the overtensed muscle.

I would imagine other problems if the cuff alignment is adjusted too far inwards.

Cheers!

[Joe]

I'm curious as to the proceedure for "aligning the cuff to center the leg in the boot" as you mentioned. It would seem that this should be the first step to take before experimenting with shims under foot to achieve proper canting. Can anyone explain how the cuff alignment process works?

[Erik/BigE]

You need to stand in the boots with the liners out. Then from behind you have someone else check to see if the shells are tilted in the right direction, so that the boot follows the leg. This is done with the buckles done up. If not, undo the buckles, and adjust the cuff. Do the buckles up again and test.

Some do it from the front, to use the shin as the visual indicator for centering.

Others do it themselves, by looking from the top.

I've done it, and am noticing that my left boot was done better than the right, because when I ski, I feel equal pressure on either side of the left boot. I feel more pressure from the inside of the right boot, which indicates that it is tilted too far out.

There must be something that you can measure.... I'll try to get back on that...

Cheers!

[Erik/BigE]

Will this work? I do not know, since I've not tried it....

I take no responsibility for the safety of this procedure. You assume all liabilities if you use it...

Remember, I am asking if this works. I am not suggesting you do it....

1) Make a mark at the center of your knee, when your knee is flexed as if skiing through neutral. A caliper can be made from two carpenter squares and two rubber bands. Half of the width is the center. You probably should have someone else do this with you, since the caliper has to be kept level. And then you can sue them when they screw up.

2) Stand in your boots with the liners out, and buckles done up as you do when you ski.

3) Use a string to measure from each side of the boot to the mark on your knee. If you use a long string, you can fold it at the mark.

4) When the distance to each side of the boot from the mark on your knee is the same, the cuff is tilted correctly.

5) If not, unbuckle, adjust cuff, tighten cuff adjuster, buckle up and measure again. Repeat until distance to each side of boot form mark on knee is the same.

Will the above work? Will adding an orthotic or other insole after this adjustment require that this adustment be made again? Can the cuff be aligned by eye alone?

Any help here would be most appreciated.

Thanks!

[jclayton]

Hi everybody , this is getting complicated but I guess a lot is acheived by trial and error if there are no experts around .

Erik , don't forget that measurements have to be taken when upright then flexed as the knee can change plane while moving forward . At least this is what Harald did with me .

I bought my son some boots in St Anton and when I suggested they check alignment they brought out a funny piece of equipment to stand and balance on , measured the degrees he was off horizontal and adjusted the canting of the boot cuff . It was a matter of 2 degrees or less so even though I was highly suspicious I let it ride and he did feel more comfortable . Is this what is known as the Campbell Balancer ? They worked on the boot very well , blowing it out and fitting it over a period of a few days but unfortunately didn't do boot sole canting .

I am curious if anyone knows about this apparatus .

J.C

[Chipi]

Hi everyone, have just registered and would like to introduce myself to you all...sorry this post has nothing to do with boot cuffs!!
Chipi

[jclayton]

Hey Chipi ,
I just realized you are just across the Med from me , at least where you are you can drive up to Sierra Nevada . I have to catch planes and boats and stuff .

J.C from sunny Palma de Mallorca

[Erik/BigE]

OK. Then,the trick is to take the average of the two measurements of knee center. One from standing the other flexed. ( Or maybe three measurements )

Then after all adjustments are done, put the liner back in, and stand relaxed in the boot, and remeasure the knee center! It should be really close to the average position. If it's not, mark it, remeasure and adjust again.

But what of the position of the foot in the empty shell? I'd think that you'd need someone else involved to ensure that the foot is equidistant from the shell sides.