Hello all and some News

[Harald]

Hi to both, John and John, and greetings to all of you. Although I have been out of the woods, literally, for a few weeks now, I am gearing up for forum activity, unfortunately, many other pressing business responsibilities have taken precedence until now.

I must open by telling you disappointing news; my new book will not be published until spring of 06. It is complete, but the publisher decided from the beginning, that they wanted to do all the technical photo editing and production in New York. They also want to market the book and the accompanying video together, as a package, to increase distribution and have all opportunities for marketing the products available to them. We still have to film most of the video this season.

When you give up control over your book, it takes much longer to produce, as now we have to hold the production department?s hand, from across the country. I guess the option is self publishing, as we did with the first two books.

Anyway, the book will take longer to complete, compared to producing it ourselves, in house. As you know our busy season has already begun, so our focus in now on the winter, the shop, our customers and camps.

I like the format for the new book, it is different and I am excited about the content. It will not look like any other ski book, more photos, less text, less complicated, more demonstration.

Although the delay is frustrating to me, there is a sliver lining. Through the fall and winter, I will review the contents and details of the book many times and revise where necessary. I find when I have time to do leisurely reviewing, other creative ideas pop up and it gives me time to develop more innovative approaches that will be included in the first edition. It is like having a second edition or revision completed before the book is even out.

This delay also gives me the opportunity to be more selective with photos and information. I can add new photos where I feel I?d like something slightly different, whether it is about camera angle or subject. We will be posting some photo montages and parts of chapters on our web site this fall, and I will send some to Peter K., for the Real Skiers web site, so check in every once and a while for updates.

A quick look at the new book:
The book demonstrates a new approach to skiing learning. In it, I take approximately seven (could end up being six or eight depending how I finalize and combine movements) components of skiing and develop them. Each component is developed from the entry level movement and exercise and evolved into how skiers at the highest levels perform them.
I identify the specific components or essentials and develop each movement and quality independently. Then I demonstrate how the different essential components combine to produce quality skiers. This is the future of effective ski teaching. We are already using this approach at our camps and it works brilliantly.

It requires higher capabilities from the instructor, as he/she has to be very precise at identifying the SMIM. (Single most important movement) The instructor in this methodology can not just sit back and regurgitate what he has done in hundreds of lessons before; he has to create a lesson for each skier. Pulling a trick out of a universal bag isn?t adequate when directing instruction toward the SMIM, for each individual in a group. We have discussed the individual lesson within a group concept before; it is a strong motivator for students. They feel engaged and they have others to watch and support their efforts.

We can plug different levels of skiers into a group using the component based instruction method, without compromising the experience for anyone, as long as the terrain is not beyond the weakest skier. We are constantly evolving, refining the process of teaching movement components, rather than progressions. This new book will take it more than just another step further. Does this approach fall under PMTS? Yes, if you were to name an umbrella that the system falls under it would completely connect to PMTS.

We have other new products and ideas in the pipeline, including mini lesson DVDs that provide specific individualized teaching modules or topics from the new book. When the flash memory chip based camcorders come out (probably this winter) you will be able to take your video cam on slope and watch the lesson as you ride the chair. Each quality skiing component will be flushed out, explained and developed with many practice opportunities and performance checks. We will include dryland training exercises for muscles and physical requirements for each of the movements. External cues whenever possible will be outlined.

Well that?s the news on the book front, now I can address the thread?s question about PMTS, and why I have not written a book on the topic of ski racing. The upper level of ski racing is the pinnacle of refined and accurate skiing technique. The techniques in my books are the foundation of refined, quality skiing. Many ski racers and ski race coaches already use my books for delivery of the skiing fundamentals to their athletes.

I don?t think there are any books that stand out on the subject of present day ski racing technique or development of ski racing movement quality. I watch all the ski race teams at Mt Hood and when they come to Colorado in the fall, for early season training. There is some very bad coaching demonstrated and there are many racers skiing poorly, lacking basics and fundamental skills. So the message of how to present and coach good skiing is not universal or immersed in the coaching population. Just because you are a racer, doesn?t immediately qualify you as an effective skier. I do see some skilled coaches doing very effective training, but these are mostly from the well recognized, established programs.

I know the US Ski Coaches Ass. with the US Ski Team coaches are finding it challenging to produce relevant, easy to understand, educational materials about ski racing techniques. There is much controversy about content and relevance. If this organization finds it difficult to produce concise, complete, effective product that can easily be digested by readers, given its resources and access to athletes; how should an independent writer produce quality materials?

I can name possibly one book that has been effective at conveying racer skiing, ?How the Racers Ski?. Yes, it is old and out of date now, but it is the only book that really presented the difference or leap, at the time, between regular skiing and quality skiing. Similarly my first book exposed the difference between real skiing and what the public is subjected to in traditional ski lessons. Another name for ?Anyone can be an Expert Skier, book 1, could be ?Why the Public can?t Ski?.

Warren Witherall exposed the difference between racers and ski instructor skiing in ?How the Racers Ski?, Expert book 1, demonstrates why skiers don?t learn to ski like experts, and offers them a way to can change their approach to learn to ski like experts.

The present era is not much different; my new book addresses with certainty (my style) the questions that real skiers have about skiing and completes the cycle, flushing out exactly and precisely the essential components and the necessary quality movements.

The technique demonstrated by quality ski racing is the example of the highest level of skiing, so there is no conflict between my methodology, writings and valid ski racing techniques. The only piece in my new book relating to ski racing technique that is missing, is gate running technique. Good gate skiing is based first on acquiring good ski technique. I have no motivation to do a book about gate technique or drawing lines in the snow. This has been done many times and rarely conveys the essence of the actual experience. It is much better to go to an entry level race camp and find out for yourself what it feels like and what it takes to run gates.

The PMTS forum will soon be going into the Real Skiers web site. A membership only forum, for ?Real Skiers?. I think this will increase the precision, quality of discussion and it will eliminate unwanted, outsider, obtuse, interference.

[Guest]

The PMTS forum will soon be going into the Real Skiers web site. A membership only forum, for ?Real Skiers?. I think this will increase the precision, quality of discussion and it will eliminate unwanted, outsider, obtuse, interference.

Hobbit, hopefully that will answer your concerns, and as an outsider, it will shut me up.

[WTFH]

(that was me posting)

[John Mason]

I personally wish they'd leave this forum where it is, but just turn on the PHP free BBS's software's login requirement with e-mail validation so the crazy posters can't post with anomymity. Your posts, WTFH are not in the category of posts that anyone has any issue with I'm sure.

And I'm sure, even if it's moved to the 'pay side' honest questioners (outsiders?) will be welcome.

Are you skiing snowbasin on that Friday btw? Mystery guest and I will be there that Friday.

So, if the forum moves to the pay side, will the PMTS powers that be object to a free PMTS forum as it's own category on Epic so that the mass public can interact with PMTS skiers? In other words, the ski technique section could be changed to PSIA two footed standard common technique, PMTS, MBR's waisteering, JohnC's use the drift, etc - so that interested skiers can discuss concepts without all the vitriol in a 'neutral' forum. (not that Epic had a history of being neutral, but actually things are better there these days as I can post a concept and about 1/2 the people are ok with it instead of BB leading a charge to shoot anything PMTS down as it used to be)

This would be an interesting concept as the technical sections can be organized by teaching philosophy and style. Having PMTS as it's own section would let people that are honestly interested in exploring these concepts have a place to do it in.

I hate to see what little exposure PMTS gets to be buried into a black hole with 1400 members or so instead of massive exposure. A good sticky explaining the key PMTS differences to standard/common technique would be a good opener. The issue would be on such a sticky, what can be said or where are copyright lines drawn? Would HH ever participate on Epic in a PMTS section and interact with the public? It's a moderated forum and a lot of the stuff that has occurred here in realskiers would not have been allowed as Dchan and Epic often prune stuff that gets out of hand.

I think WTFH is for such a section. What about others here?

[Harald]

John,

I agree with you on a number of counts, especially having discussion about PMTS info/benefits available to skiers who are not familiar with PMTS or its teachings. The better solution for the forum, is your suggestion that entry to the PMTS forum be only available to people who produce a valid name and e-mail address. I think this would cut down the garbage or trash talk considerably. No one with the handle ?guest? would be able to post.

Is it just me or is the login finally working immediately, for the first time?

[Hobbit]

As I mentioned in my previous post the RealSkiers (aka TSFS) claim to have the best managed ski forums on Internet. These claims are ironic at least. In my opinion, the site is not well managed. One of the problems is that Harald and Peter are probably too busy to devote enough time to managing WEB site or moderating the forums. So moving the PMTS forum inside the paid service WEB site will not make it better. I think it might do the opposite.

It would be really nice if PMTS Forum would be a part of epic instead. This would actually provide for much broader PMTS exposure. Of course this decision is up to Harald.

[Ott Gangl]

Hobbit and John and Harald, the Epicski forum should have enough room to include a PMTS section, or at least an area where it is discussed. There are many serious threads on PMTS discussed on Epic, all one has to do is pout "PMTS" in the title. John mentioned {quote: the ski technique section could be changed to PSIA two footed standard common technique, PMTS, MBR's waisteering, JohnC's use the drift, etc} my only fear is that it would fraction the forum more than it is with cliques forming, etc.

Tai Chi, Waist Steering and Gary Dranow did OK with just being in the ski technique and instruction forum and a post like the very excellent post by Peter Stone would be devoured. Since Epicski is a moderated forum which does not allow blatent advertising in the open forums and flaming (running down or belittling other) and when it gets too harsh the moderator stops it, Harald's many references to skiers who learned with traditional methods can't ski (witness:?Why the Public can?t Ski?) would probably insult too many forum members who are struggling to get better and may well be deleted by the moderator. Such opinions and posts would be better in a closed forum as mentioned.

A better way would be to entice skier who have questions with some helpful tips, as many instructors on Epic are doing right now and I'm sure they would be welcomed and not ridiculed as Ti Chi skiing is now since PMTS is solid not way out as Tai Chi which is more related to the 70s ballet skiing than actual all mountain skiing that is sought by most recreational skiers.

Peter Stone's article on balance is one of the best understandable posts I have come across for ski instructing in a long time and he never mentioned that traditional skiing sucks...

Methinks that many folks here think that Epic is a PSIA forum, the above belies that, even though it is heavily weighted in that direction by the simple fact that skiers who had instruction in the past 40+ years took them mainly from PSIA trained instructors, it was the only thing available outside of pockets like Walter Foeger's Natur Technik, a direct to parallel teaching system at Jay Peak in Vermont and the graduated length method by Cliff Taylor. The former was just not available in many places and the latter got beginners sliding but it ingrained bad technique.

This is my 2 cents worth...


....Ott

[Hobbit]

I want to clarify my previous post.

I think that mixing PMTS posts in the "Ski Instruction" section would not work.
If the epic admins will create a separate discussion board named for example "PMTS Forum" on the same level of access as "Ski Instruction" than it might work. Besides, PMTS is not ski instruction only but the whole system and it deserves a separate entry.

Of course, if the move happens, SCSA must be allowed back there

[WTFH]

Hobbit, I like what you're saying.

From the point of view of an "outsider" - i.e. someone who has not been to a camp, nor taken any PMTS lessons in Europe or North America, then I know that if this forum was to go into a pay site, then I would never get the chance to ask a question, nor would I be inclined to. But I do agree, we do need some level of moderation.
Creating a PMTS section on Epic may well be the way forward.

[Ott Gangl]

Will we then need to give Gary Dranow and taichiskier their own forum too? And how about Weems and his Diamond system and so on, etc.?

Hobbit, PMTS is discussed quite frequently on Epic and there is a lot of interest, just make it available. And I am all for letting SCSA back if he takes his meds and keeps his outbursts down.

....Ott

[John Mason]

it will always work if you do it up to 3 times in a row, but almost never works the 1st time.

To summarize:

Harald likes the idea of keeping the forum publically accessible but fixing it from a technical perspective. Harald did not comment on the value or un-value of creating a PMTS section on Epic so I'll take that as a no vote from Harald.

Ott thinks a PMTS forum on Epic could work, but then it might fracture the ski instruction section into a bunch of seperate forums sorted by technique. Oh, and a key and accurate post by HH would be nixed by an Epic moderator as insulting to too many skiers. But, in my mind if HH can't post freely then what is the point of an Epic PMTS section whoose system's creator cannot speak his mind.

SCSA won't need to be let in because as people may have noticed he doesn't post on any forum anymore as a matter of lifestyle choice.

I believe that realskiers currently is outsourced and run by a 3rd party and that peter does not have control of the forum software or it's implementation. I'd be happy to host it and clean things up. All Peter would have to do is change the link to my server site. Just PM me whomever the appropriate party is and I'll call them back to discuss if there is interest. The current contents can be backed up by an admin and e-mailed to be reloaded.

I think any long term new PMTS forum should have some categories to make it easier to find info such as boot/alignment - PMTS technique - where do you want to ski - camp info and questions -. Right now we plop all that into one section. Also, really good posts could be copied/moved to a reference section for when those really good threads develop (like Jay's with all the analysis and most of HH's summation posts)

[Max]

John's definitely got the right idea. We don't even need to move it to another location. John would only need admin rights temporarily to organize the site, remove the spam, and get the email based registration sytem working. Then we just need one or two volunteer admins to clean up the occasional spam that will get posted (even in an reg based system you'll end up with spam from time to time).

[Ott Gangl]

>>>Oh, and a key and accurate post by HH would be nixed by an Epic moderator as insulting to too many skiers.<<<

John, HH posts are mostly judgmental about all else not PMTS. I know it makes members of the club feel good, but I've been through that as I mentioned in another thread. I wish he would just not comment on how everyone else teaches and stick with offerings on PMTS.

I see too many 'accurate' commercials in the presidential campaigns bringing up the opposition's shortcomings instead of concentrating on one's virtue.

....Ott

[John Mason]

I think that's a good point Ott that you've made in the past.

People that came up the normal TTS way will recognize that what their reading in HH's new book is quite different then what they have been taught so why bring it up. Does it add anything to the presentation to bring it up.

Of course in the context of this forum, the TTS types challenge everything being said here over and over again so I can understand the need to define the core differences and define some of the dead end moves now and then. I'm not sure what that type of discourse adds to the book though in that venue.

So, I'll be at Holiday Valley Jan 13th - 15th. Are you going to be skiing there any this year?

[Ott Gangl]

Being retired I don't make plans ahead since we can go anytime but if the weather is right we may make HV at that time, remind we when the time gets closer.

Which brings up another point, I am on a fixed income with SS and a small pension, small enough so I have not had to pay any income tax in over ten years and to ask me or my many friends who just scrape by, what with having kids and gas bills and house payments, etc. to attend a skiing camp of any kind is just utopia.

So unless PMTS comes to Boston Mills or anywhere withing driving distance and is free or very low cost, I and my friends will not be able to partake. That is why I think taking skiers to task about not attending a PMTS camp is useless at best.

Maybe the folks who, like milesb, take the stuff from the books and CDs and devote all their skiing time to practicing the PMTS moves can benefit, but it is easy to misintrepet words and the videos and practice it wrong in one area or the other. At some point an instructor needs to look at them and make the judgement if the practice was correct.

....Ott