Balance

PMTS Forum

Balance

Postby Bluey » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:36 am

PMTS expresses itself in its primary concern about Balance.

I feel I have a good sense of balance and alignment but on skis' balance doesn't seem/feel to always happen during the transfer.

What II feel I need to concentrate on is balance at the point immediately just before, during, and immediately just after the Transfer.

In particular I'd like to focus on what my feet ( read balls of feet , arch of foot and heel of foot ) are doing in respect to the continuum of tipping and their simultaneous role in fore/aft balance.

In Books 1 & 2 these concepts seem to be spread all over the place, and yes an index would be useful,...but as none exists ....we'll just have to bat on.....

Feel free to jump in and correct me. This is what I believe is happening to me and some of my current thoughts on what I need to do to improve.......


On groomed slopes, at the point of transfer,whilst having a narrow stance, I prefer to put my Free Foot ( FF) down and transfer balance to the up hill ski ( read new SF ) then relax both feet flat to the slope and let gravity pull me across the fall line.
Continous tipping of the FF is my goal at this point and so is working on my fore/aft balance ...ie weight more on the balls of the SF at the top of the turn then moving the weight more towards the heel of the foot as I approach the bottom of the turn.
All during the turn I am continuosly trying to drag/keep my FF close into the heel of my SF boot and back under the hips until the very bottom of the turn, at which point I'm working on the next turn......

All of the above is happening very quickly.

I want to get a stronger edge.

This is what I think I need to work on :

Quicker and more confident committment to the transfer...ie a la.... Nike's motto...Just do it!!!
Getting the FF up ( vertically higher) and out of the way so the new SF can passivley be drawn towards the slope and therefore on a greater edge.
Better pole planting to compensate for any loss of balance during the above.
Here's the cruncher.....better fore / aft timing........ie weight more on the balls of the SF at the top of the turn then moving the weight more towards the heel of the foot as I approach the bottom of the turn. I now understand this to meann moving the feet under the body/hips higher up in the turn and not so much at the point when the turn is about to finish.


What's can be improved with the above??
Suggestions?


Bluey



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Postby Mr. T » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:26 am

I do not know Bluey. The fact is that everybody I talk to seems to interpret this kind of issue in a different and personal way.

I am a big guy for a skier, not so much tall (6'2" only) but heavy and
wide. I work like crazy to narrow my stance. And I do not think there
is any drill that will exercise your ability to balance better than one-ski
skiing, as the same ski will be the downhill and the uphill ski, alternatively.
Plus, it will increase your ability to edge since if you do not edge enough on a single ski on your outside edge you are going for a sideslip (fun, but not what you'd like to achieve) and you will receive immediate feedback that way.

I noticed also that my turns look better (from video) when I do remember
to pull my FF back and keep it close to my other boot, the SF boot as long as my FF does not act like a totally passive and I remeber to tilt it towards the little toe. To improve that I do a lot of work as suggested by Diana some time ago. I put a towel on a tiled floor, I put two phone books on it, then I tried to pull the towel towards my leg, say the SF leg, using my FF toes over the towel. That is supposed to develop the right muscles to perform the pulling of the FF towards the SF in the right kind of movements. Adopt a natural stance, do not overdo it.

As far as you do personally, I will not comment, for I do not think I am in the position to tell you anything. If I saw you I may give you some feedback, but from half-a-world away, I do not feel like trying.

Cheers,
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Postby jclayton » Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:49 am

Hi Bluey,
regarding commitment to get into the turn more aggressively , HH showed me how he gets his C of G into the turn early and early edging ( Hi - C ) . You start angulating for the new turn earlier than you think you should , it feels quite awkward but when it works you really feel an incredible power in the turn especially when travelling a bit quicker and on steeper slopes .

Stand 90? to the fall line in normal position i.e. hips toward the slope and shoulders angulated down ( maintain the inside arm strong ) . Then reverse the position in exactly the same spot i.e. support yourself with the poles down the hill , edge with the downhill edges showing the bases to the mountain , hips down hill and shoulders uphill . Sounds wierd but if the angulation is right you can release the poles and stay balanced on the DOWNHILL edges ( easy slope of course ) . Its like starting the new turn prematurely .

Regarding fore-aft balance I fell into the trap of moving the weight back and forth during the turn , accelerating out on the tails but it is too easy to overdo it . One ski skiing fine tunes this perfectly and when it all comes together promotes a very smooth and natural crossover . I have to really concentrate on keeping a "strong arm" after pole plant while doing this.

I Breckenridge I saw a disabled skiier doing the most incredible clean carves last year on his one leg .

Another important point that I have to keep reminding myself of is that it takes a while and lots of drilling for it all to come together , then 2 weeks later it`s like 3 steps forward , 2 steps back . Even HH has to do the odd drill to stop lapsing into lazy habits . ( admitted by him ) but precious little I suspect .

I hope Iexplained the bit about early turn entry , let me know otherwise . Also I hope I have the concept right , even in a straightforward method like this can be misinterpreted , but it does seem to work in practice for me .

J.C.
skinut ,among other things
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Balance

Postby Bluey » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:46 pm

Hi Mr. T & J.C.,

Thanks for your responses.

I appreciate your detailed comments.

I'll try the telephone & towel exercise out today and get back to you on how it went.

I'm trying to feel my balance thru the very bottom of my feet so that my focus is at the very soles of my feet rather than higher up.....the goal is to be able to look ahead to where I'm going but have my body ( read soles of my feet ) intuitively feel/react to the slope. Kinda like the exercise that was suggested to me about doing some simple drills with my eyes closed ( but of course, with a friend to avert any disaster/injury)

I trust this makes sense.

Bluey



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Postby -- SCSA » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:25 pm

The weighted release is difficult to get to and it takes time. I know in my case, even when I thought I had it, I didn't.

The drills are usually the cureall. I know I've been working a lot on the weighted release drills and my turns feel good. In particular, the javelin exercise always cures lazy edging problems.
-- SCSA
 

Postby -- SCSA » Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:28 pm

Let's be clear though -- there's a point to every drill.

Like the javelin for example. The rule of this drill is don't set the ski back down until you can set it on it's new, little toe edge. I've found that if I follow the drills, I can cure just about any issue I'm working on.
-- SCSA
 

Balance

Postby Bluey » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:25 am

Thanks guys.....this is really all great stuff !!

I've read about the javelin but haven't done any exercises with it....sounds like I should......thanks SCSA for your thoughts on this.

I appreciate everybody's points.....they all makes sense....just gotta get out there and give it a go.

Unfortunately, the PMTS instructors I was associated with last year will have a zero presence this year in Oz as these 2 instructors will not able to continue in Oz, due to factors outside their control, so I really appreciate the advice I'm getting.......

( BTW, ...Tommy , how many instructors do you have in Sweden?
If there are no PMTS instructors in Sweden then how did you come across PMTS or did you find it on a trip to the US/Canada??. ).

Anyway, I digress, .......I think the last piece of the jigsaw puzzle for me is the pole plant and controlling my Upper Body movement....I'm kinda weak in this area now.....originally I used my poles a lot but as my balance developed I kinda stopped using them....in fact, I enjoy the sense of flying down the slopes just using my balancing skills to float my way down ....but now that I want to tackle bumps and the bigger steeps I know I need to get my pole plant coordinated and get more control over what my Upper body is doing.


I appreciate the need for a good "Strong Arm " technique so I've committed myself to some early ski weekends of just drills when the snow season dials up again in June down here.
June may sound like a long way off but it's not...in fact I go into full fitness and balance training mode in early February in anticipation of the season ahead.......( the older I get the earlier I've gotta start ....).


With all the good advice I've been given I'll need to get my season pass early.....


Time to get back to the other important stuff in my life....


Bluey



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PMTS instructors in Sweden

Postby tommy » Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:53 am

Bluey wrote:

[( BTW, ...Tommy , how many instructors do you have in Sweden?
If there are no PMTS instructors in Sweden then how did you come across PMTS or did you find it on a trip to the US/Canada??. ). ]

Nope, as far as I know, there's no PMTS instructors in Sweden.

I found PMTS "by accident" last year, while browsing the web for skiing information. After some trials with the Phantom move, I got in touch with Harald and signed up for the Hintertux camp last spring. Rest is, as they say, history....! ;-)

--Tommy
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Balance

Postby Erik » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:18 am

I could be entirely wrong here, and if so, obviously require correction. I really don't mind being wrong when I'm learning, so here it goes:

It sounds to me like you could use a little movement of the hips when initiating the turn. In my opinion, just after the the FF ski is tilted to the little toe edge, the knee should also move just slightly into the turn, and then the hip should follow, which is what drags the SF onto it's inside edge. The key here is that the knee is moved in such a way that the hip follows, you don't just stick it out. (It may be a poor analogy by I'm reminded of those old disco/break dancers that make a wave up one side of their body and down the other, starting with sticking out one knee, then the hip, ...)

At the point where the hip moves to the inside, the sensation is that the upper body is tilting down the hill, like an upside down pendulum, fixed on the SF. Keep reaching with the SF, and keep the shoulders level. The SF ski will start to carve, and the angulation that began by moving the hip into the turn increases. The ski comes around to "catch" you, during compression. The transition to the next turn begins, where the SF becomes the FF as the "pendulum" swings through neutral once more.

A CSIA Level IV instructor once told me that one should reach with the legs in the first phase of the turn. You see, I was locked in a squat position in the first and second phases of the turn. When beginning angulation, reaching with the legs has the effect of moving the hips inside.

I'm ready for any and all corrections, but really am hoping this is right!

Cheers!
Erik
 

Postby -- SCSA » Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:59 am

Hi Erik,

Hips are a hard thing for me to talk about -- so I don't. I'm not saying that's wrong, I've just never been able to incorporate anything meaningful into my skiing using "Hip tips". Ya know, "keep your hips here" or "keep your hips there". I just can't seem to do anything with my hips -- but that could be do to me being white and male! hah ha hah.

All I know about my hips is that if they're tight, I can't tip good. So I do a lot of stretching in my hips. When my hips feel good, so do I!
-- SCSA
 

Postby BigE » Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:52 am

I agree. Very hard to get the idea, and even harder to move them -- it's easier to do than to learn. I tried for the better part of a season, until it came together. The problem was I tried too hard. I came together on a green, when I just allowed the knee to follow the big toe edge, and the hip to follow the knee.

This is a bizarre example, but I hope it works:

To "follow the knee", I kind of relaxed the hip allowing the knee movement to open the hip. Kind of like getting into a car, where you slide the hips into the seat. But the trick is that it's the hip on the outside of the car that "opens up". ( The left one if you are driving in the US. ) That feeling of "opening up" is what I mean when the hip follows the knee inside, it just happens in reverse when you get into the car -- the hip "opens", the knee follows.
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Balance

Postby Bluey » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:58 pm

Erik. BigE and SCSA,

The use of the hips is a good area to talk about for me.....

I find it easy to use my hips to move my centre of mass to assist with the Transfer....I kinda find it easy so I'm surprised you guys kinda don't .....maybe it's becasue of different body shapes.

Using the "hips across rather than up" in short turns is discussed briefly in Book 1 ( pg 128). ( Maybe HH could elaborate more on this in his new book??).

I think hip use makes the transfer easier but it didn't get much of a mention at my Harb camp. They focused more on the feet rather than the hips.

I can't really describe how I get my hips to move across. Erik and BigE seem to have described the general gist of what I attempt do for each turn. The only extra I would add is that the amount of hip movement should be just enough to get my body aligned vertically so the the weight is still centred downward over the centre of the ski boot, if that makes sense
As a side point, I've always used this type of hip motion to change direction/side step when playing running sports like football.




Bluey



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Postby BigE/Erik » Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:09 pm

The main reason I did not get it at first, is that I'm foremost a hockey player, and that motion is contrary to a compact and powerful skating stance. At best, one would use it to avoid serious body contact, but at 6'2" and 240 lbs, I've never worried about contact avoidance. 8)

Secondly, alpine ontario suggests that heavy weightlifting is to be avoided the day before going out. Probably because you'll be too tight to ski the next day. So that means extensive stretching (which I never did) before skiing.
BigE/Erik
 


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