Bs"D
Wow, sounds incredible, I'm jealous.
Harb Carvers
59 posts
• Page 4 of 4 • 1, 2, 3, 4
by Max » Thu Jun 02, 2005 6:35 pm
There is no question about it, you don't have to steer carvers. Tip em hard and they crank a turn for you. I finally got it working after spending a coulple of hours with Jay a few weekends ago. My problem was that I was resisting the turn, once I committed they started turning just fine.
SCSA...you said, "Carving? I just don't have any desire to ski groomers, I'm sorry."
I certainly understand the desire to stay off the groomed runs, however, I've found that at least an hour a day spent pure carving (varying the turn radius) has helped to improve my all mountain skiing quite a bit. I've gotten to the point where I can make some fairly decent carved turns in off piste conditions. For me the feeling of a pure carve is just so cool. I'm not saying all skiing should be a pure carve, just that its alot of fun to be able to do it when the slope allows.
SCSA...you said, "Carving? I just don't have any desire to ski groomers, I'm sorry."
I certainly understand the desire to stay off the groomed runs, however, I've found that at least an hour a day spent pure carving (varying the turn radius) has helped to improve my all mountain skiing quite a bit. I've gotten to the point where I can make some fairly decent carved turns in off piste conditions. For me the feeling of a pure carve is just so cool. I'm not saying all skiing should be a pure carve, just that its alot of fun to be able to do it when the slope allows.
- Max
by *SCSA » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:35 am
Hey Max,
I was a little cranky that day.
Don't get me wrong. The movements used in carving are the same movements I use in my beloved bumpity bumps, off piste, my favorite tree lines.
I just tend to keep my feet closer. I've never been able to make the tight radius turns, because I've never really focused on carving. Since I don't practice much with my feet wider, I don't get the tight arcs. That's what I meant to say, when I said I don't want to ski groomers.
Now some will read this and go, "Wait a minute. He practices PMTS, but he doesn't practice carving? Whazzup with that?"
I'll tell you whazzup with that. When I first started in PMTS, my goal wasn't carving. It was to ski where others don't. So I focused on balance, nothing but balance. If you watch HH ski bumps or off piste in either 1 or 2, he has a narrow stance. Hell I ski with him, I know. His stance is wider on groomers. He can do this because he comes from racing, where a wider stance is used. Me? I've never raced, so I never learned to use a wider stance.
But I use the Primary Movements, heck yes I do. I just do it with a narrower stance. I totally focus on making turns with my downhill foot, the upper body control. Text book PMTS. Where I've never really focused is getting two tracks that are consistent in width. Because to do so, you need to hang out on groomers. I don't wanna hang out on groomers.
10-4?
One more thang (Rusty). I ski at Vail/BC most of the time. During the year I see racers here, either for a camp or training. Of course the men's Downhill is at the Beav every year. Last year at the Beav I followed a few WC skiers who were free skiing. I gotta say, they couldn't ski bumps very well at all. I dusted them. They were also having a little trouble negotiating the powder chop. Why? Well, it could have been because they were on race skis. But in the bumps, I could see it plain as day. There feet were too far apart. That and it looked like they just didn't practice much in da bumpity bumps.
I see skiers all the time, who can make better turns than me on groomers. You know, two tracks, evenly spaced. Heck. I'll see a few in this camp I'm going to. What I hardly ever see, are skiers who can out do me on my turf.
Of course this gets back to the stance debate. There is no debate. If carving is your thang (Rusty), then a wider stance is needed. If bumps, off-piste is your thang (Rusty), then you'll need a narrower stance. Can you get the best of both world's in PMTS? You bet you can, it's what it's designed for. PMTS teaches one set of movements, used everywhere -- the Primary Movements.
I just skipped over some of it.
But you know what Max? Maybe, just maybe, I've typed myself into finding that middle ground. As long as it's fun, and I dig it, I'll do it. We'll see what I get out of this race camp I'm going to. But I won't be able to see how it feels until next year. I'll let you know.
If not, don't look for me on groomers anytime soon.
Be cool Max, we'll check you out later.
I was a little cranky that day.
Don't get me wrong. The movements used in carving are the same movements I use in my beloved bumpity bumps, off piste, my favorite tree lines.
I just tend to keep my feet closer. I've never been able to make the tight radius turns, because I've never really focused on carving. Since I don't practice much with my feet wider, I don't get the tight arcs. That's what I meant to say, when I said I don't want to ski groomers.
Now some will read this and go, "Wait a minute. He practices PMTS, but he doesn't practice carving? Whazzup with that?"
I'll tell you whazzup with that. When I first started in PMTS, my goal wasn't carving. It was to ski where others don't. So I focused on balance, nothing but balance. If you watch HH ski bumps or off piste in either 1 or 2, he has a narrow stance. Hell I ski with him, I know. His stance is wider on groomers. He can do this because he comes from racing, where a wider stance is used. Me? I've never raced, so I never learned to use a wider stance.
But I use the Primary Movements, heck yes I do. I just do it with a narrower stance. I totally focus on making turns with my downhill foot, the upper body control. Text book PMTS. Where I've never really focused is getting two tracks that are consistent in width. Because to do so, you need to hang out on groomers. I don't wanna hang out on groomers.
10-4?
One more thang (Rusty). I ski at Vail/BC most of the time. During the year I see racers here, either for a camp or training. Of course the men's Downhill is at the Beav every year. Last year at the Beav I followed a few WC skiers who were free skiing. I gotta say, they couldn't ski bumps very well at all. I dusted them. They were also having a little trouble negotiating the powder chop. Why? Well, it could have been because they were on race skis. But in the bumps, I could see it plain as day. There feet were too far apart. That and it looked like they just didn't practice much in da bumpity bumps.
I see skiers all the time, who can make better turns than me on groomers. You know, two tracks, evenly spaced. Heck. I'll see a few in this camp I'm going to. What I hardly ever see, are skiers who can out do me on my turf.
Of course this gets back to the stance debate. There is no debate. If carving is your thang (Rusty), then a wider stance is needed. If bumps, off-piste is your thang (Rusty), then you'll need a narrower stance. Can you get the best of both world's in PMTS? You bet you can, it's what it's designed for. PMTS teaches one set of movements, used everywhere -- the Primary Movements.
I just skipped over some of it.
But you know what Max? Maybe, just maybe, I've typed myself into finding that middle ground. As long as it's fun, and I dig it, I'll do it. We'll see what I get out of this race camp I'm going to. But I won't be able to see how it feels until next year. I'll let you know.
If not, don't look for me on groomers anytime soon.
Be cool Max, we'll check you out later.
- *SCSA
by Max » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:57 am
Hmm...My stance is much narrower than the average racer and I can do some decent tight carved turns. I don't know...I'm not sure stance width has much to do with carving groomers. I think more important is retraction of the inside ski. But what do I know anyway, I didn't even start real carving until this year.
It'll be interesting to hear how you do on the race course.
It'll be interesting to hear how you do on the race course.
- Max
by RadRab » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:39 am
Bs"D
Dear Mr. 97% SCSA Sir,
With warranted trepidation, I dare to say the legend has missed a point.
On the Groomers, ripping carved turns, the stance is not wider. It just appears that way due to the proper verticle seperation of the legs.
Catch you tomorrow night, sincerely,
RadRab
Dear Mr. 97% SCSA Sir,
With warranted trepidation, I dare to say the legend has missed a point.
On the Groomers, ripping carved turns, the stance is not wider. It just appears that way due to the proper verticle seperation of the legs.
Catch you tomorrow night, sincerely,
RadRab
- RadRab
don't make excuses
by HH » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:26 pm
Last season, when I skied with Eric Schlopy, he said to me, ?I can?t believe you can get those angles with such a narrow stance.? This is from a world cup racer and bronze medal winner at the world championships. You don?t need to be wide, you just need to be right. A six inch width is versatile; a one inch width is not on groomers.
I want to and intend to be a versatile skier, able to perform on all conditions. I don?t make excuses for bumps or powder or groomers. I just learn what it takes to make the best turn on all conditions, that makes me a better skier on the conditions I like the most.
I want to and intend to be a versatile skier, able to perform on all conditions. I don?t make excuses for bumps or powder or groomers. I just learn what it takes to make the best turn on all conditions, that makes me a better skier on the conditions I like the most.
- HH
by Guest » Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:27 am
It?s getting a bit spammy around here lately; I?m expecting Vikings singing about canned breakfast meat!
Well, it?s mid-summer, and I?ve been riding my Carvers at least once a week when it?s been dry. I?m a self-taught skier, so I?m used to finding what works by reading and experimenting on my own. I thought it?d be fun to share some things I?ve tried.
First, one day I was thinking about how SkierSynergy had shown me how his boots are stretched to allow more ankle movement inside the boot, so I thought I?d try simulating this by carving with the lower cuff buckles undone. The extra ankle movement inside my boots did indeed make a big increase in the effectiveness of the LTE (LTW?) tipping thing in getting my center ?o mass moving into the next turn. Neat! I just find it interesting and slightly unexpected how foot movement inside the boot does this big thing, and I can see where a lot of people would be skeptical about this until they tried it themselves. I may at some point want to have my boots stretched like this.
Next, carving without poles. I noticed that when I tried to turn hard in the middle of a turn or to go back uphill that the outside BTE wheels were drifting a bit, chattering, almost skidding, not quite hooked up. Also related to this I think, is that I thought I was curving my body or countering enough, but what I tried next showed me that I wasn?t and that my body was too straight. One day I went to my carving spot (school parking lot) and found I?d forgot my poles and had to carve without them. Not having poles allowed my arms to move more freely through a wider range, inside arm up, outside arm down as needed for balance, and this wilder, more exaggerated arm motion also allowed me to discover the sensation of stronger contraction of the muscles in my side abs. I found that the more ?bent? that I made my body feel by contracting my sides, the harder I could turn without my wheels seeming to chatter or drift, and also the more balanced I felt. My upper body felt freer and more able to respond to my balancing needs. And I think there may be more of a downward force on my wheels the more bent or curved or countered my body feels. I?ll go back to using poles, but I think it?s fun without ?em too, ?cause it feels more natural to just let my arms do what they want. Now that I think about it, maybe I?m gripping my poles so tightly that my arms and shoulders have been tied up, along with the rest of my upper body. Hmmm?
A couple more things:
Soccer cones? force ya to make harder turns than ya think ya can?fun!
An inclinometer from the hardware store? helps for scouting out those out of the way spots.
That?s it? later.
Well, it?s mid-summer, and I?ve been riding my Carvers at least once a week when it?s been dry. I?m a self-taught skier, so I?m used to finding what works by reading and experimenting on my own. I thought it?d be fun to share some things I?ve tried.
First, one day I was thinking about how SkierSynergy had shown me how his boots are stretched to allow more ankle movement inside the boot, so I thought I?d try simulating this by carving with the lower cuff buckles undone. The extra ankle movement inside my boots did indeed make a big increase in the effectiveness of the LTE (LTW?) tipping thing in getting my center ?o mass moving into the next turn. Neat! I just find it interesting and slightly unexpected how foot movement inside the boot does this big thing, and I can see where a lot of people would be skeptical about this until they tried it themselves. I may at some point want to have my boots stretched like this.
Next, carving without poles. I noticed that when I tried to turn hard in the middle of a turn or to go back uphill that the outside BTE wheels were drifting a bit, chattering, almost skidding, not quite hooked up. Also related to this I think, is that I thought I was curving my body or countering enough, but what I tried next showed me that I wasn?t and that my body was too straight. One day I went to my carving spot (school parking lot) and found I?d forgot my poles and had to carve without them. Not having poles allowed my arms to move more freely through a wider range, inside arm up, outside arm down as needed for balance, and this wilder, more exaggerated arm motion also allowed me to discover the sensation of stronger contraction of the muscles in my side abs. I found that the more ?bent? that I made my body feel by contracting my sides, the harder I could turn without my wheels seeming to chatter or drift, and also the more balanced I felt. My upper body felt freer and more able to respond to my balancing needs. And I think there may be more of a downward force on my wheels the more bent or curved or countered my body feels. I?ll go back to using poles, but I think it?s fun without ?em too, ?cause it feels more natural to just let my arms do what they want. Now that I think about it, maybe I?m gripping my poles so tightly that my arms and shoulders have been tied up, along with the rest of my upper body. Hmmm?
A couple more things:
Soccer cones? force ya to make harder turns than ya think ya can?fun!
An inclinometer from the hardware store? helps for scouting out those out of the way spots.
That?s it? later.
- Guest
Harb Carvers
by Fugettaboutit » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:57 pm
How do the carvers do on flat ground? Not any hills in my neck of the woods.
- Fugettaboutit
flat ground?
by danny » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:50 am
When starting out you'll want to be on a nearly flat area, as any bad habits you have skiing will be magnified on Carvers (a good thing IMO), and you'll need to take it easy. The wheels seem faster to me than skis, like skiing on ice, so modest slopes can offer plenty of fun and challenge, at least for me. I can usually find about a 3 to 4 degree slope in many empty parking areas (for ex. early morning big box retail, school parking lots during summer break, etc.). Most parking lots have at least some slope for drainage, and if you need to you can skate to get up to speed and then carve some turns. IMO about a 5 to 6 degree slope is about the most you'd need, if that. I have heard of some carving streets >10 degrees, however I think that's the extreme.
- danny
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 5:50 am
- Location: Portland, OR
Harb Carvers
by Fugettaboutit » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:15 am
Thanks Danny. Sounds quite do-able. Pray for Snow!
- Fugettaboutit
by Sidney » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:25 pm
Has anyone here (not from the US) ordered a pair of carvers and had them shipped overseas?? I'm very keen on getting a pair. Harbskisystems website has an order form but doesnt seem to indicate overseas shipping.
I'm also curious how performing a super phantom move and weight release feels on the carvers. How true to the on snow feel is it?
Sidney
I'm also curious how performing a super phantom move and weight release feels on the carvers. How true to the on snow feel is it?
Sidney
-
Sidney - Posts: 96
- Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:43 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Harb Carver orders
by Harald » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:34 pm
Hi Sid, We ship all over the world. In fact, we have sent Carvers to New Zealand, Australia, Hungery, Greece, Italy and beyond. Just send us your address, postal code. We will figure the shipping cost and e-mail it to you. Try your order from our info link on the Harb Ski Systems web site. The Carver site had some problems a few days ago, but I think it is up now.
"Maximum Skiing information, Minimum BS
- Harald
- Posts: 1181
- Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:36 pm
- Location: Dumont
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