Gathering redux

[*SCSA]

Hi all,

These past few days have sprung an idea.

Can we start over with the Gathering?

My only thing is that I'd rather this be center for information, etc. I can't post on gapic, I don't want to even if I could. I just have disagreements with the owners, etc.

Yesterday was a gathering. Why can't we make a big ole official Gathering for next year? Why can't we do it every year? We can, but more than me have to want it to happen.

People could come from all around the country, meet and make turns for a few days. My only thang is that if some come for ski tips, that they get them free of charge. I know Bob Barnes would be there if he had enough advance notice. I can't speak for Harald, but I bet I could get him to show up one day, anyway. If not Harald, maybe Rich Messer, Diana, Joseph or Glen.

It could be the most bitchin gathering. Some could hook up and go rip. Some could get ski tips. Presentations could be given in the evening, if it was big enough, we could get equipment demos. It could really be bitchin. An annual free event.

I think we should do it. If you think so too, reply here.

It could be a milk day at the Love Land tomorrow.

[midwif]

This is from a wanna-be, but non-ripper. Sounds like a great idea.

[Ott Gangl]

SCSA the peace maker. Did you know that your famous quote of "97
%" has been upgraded to 98% by some of the best skiers who should know such things?

.....Ott

[John Mason]

Ott - the originator of the other percentage, I know first hand, now has a different take on it.

That person now understands that what some think is great skiing others think is terrible skiing.

Is it semantics?

Not if you look at the results.

How would you measure it objectivly? The amount of energy expended to come down the hill.

The people that most complain about Harald not accepting rotary as part of a balanced blended approach don't understand, that the rotary PMTS rejects is totally embedded in their own skiing. The simple basic concept of release is not clear in their skiing. Ott, you have often said this or that person can ski with a PMTS look or style whenever they want. I have yet to see this on-slope.

In other words, some in the current top sking of PSIA to a PSIA person looks great. The PSIA cert lvl III I met in Chicago would love the vid on a recent new web-site that opened and want to aspire to that skiing.

I look at it and just see a whole lot of wasted energy.

So, it's not so much 97 or 98 percent anymore but just different approachs to how to make the skis turn. If I did the advice and executed it correctly of what I see these days in Ski magazine I'd look like the pictures in Ski magazine. But, I don't want to. That end result isn't where I have any desire to go.

Likewise some people don't like the end result of the look of a high level PMTS skier coming down the hill. So be it. It's not in my interest to convince a person what good skiing is. Most non-instructors can tell. Lots of instructors apparently cannot.

I had a blast this year skiing and many things came together for me. But, I'm still on a long road to improvement. So, how could SCSA or I make a comment like we are better than x percent of people coming down the hill? Because most people coming down the hill, the vast vast majority, have never had any kind of lesson and may only ski one ski trip a year and the slopes are filled with people barely able to control where they are going. Everyone jumped on that comment out of any context as if I was referring to 98% of the epic crowed on the hill rather than the whole population on the hill.

However, I can say this, I don't want to ski like the vast majority of instructors I see on the hill even the top ones. Golf cart skiing with lots of active rotary and a wide stance that limits the use of balance just makes me want to gag when I see it. I'm not saying that all ski that way because they don't.

Some of the PSIA mindset instructors I've met ski very nicely. They may have started when they were 2 years old, figured it out all by themselves, then tell others how to ski with no clue how they do it themselves and even get rated in the top 100 in the magazines. Makes me sick. But their students have a great time even after they repeatedly injure themselves as a direct result of bad ski instruction. "Just go faster" as a teaching phrase is just about as far away from any advice a primary movements teacher would do to a student. It's borderline irresponsible. Yet that's what I saw as a personal observation this year.

So, I'll just enjoy the great coaching and instruction I get in the PMTS fold and not worry myself about the supposed conflict. There is little need to reconcile. Why waste the effort. The mindsets and assumptions and understandings are so very far apart.

However, I enjoy skiing with anyone at anytime.

Signed: "Brainwashed" and loving it

[Guest]

Well John, if it makes you sick, so be it, just don't injure yourself rushing to the bathroom. Doesn't it strike you odd that other people's skiing affects you so much and they couldn't give a damn about how you ski, after all if their skiing makes them happy, that is all that counts.

To 98% of skiers, skiing is a recreation, like going for a hike or going to the beach where playing in the waves they only have to be good enough swimmers to keep from drowning. You wouldn't sit on the beach and comment that their swimming teacher was a lousy one and watching them makes you skick, so why do you comment on skiers?

You should feel all warm and cuddly wraped in your superiority but why flaunt it?

....Ott

[*SCSA]

Hi Ott,

Yes, that's very nice. Please tell all that I really appreciate the fine compliments. Coming from them, it really means a lot.

Thanks again,

[*SCSA]

John,

There's no conflict. Skiing well is like wearing nice underwear. It feels great, but you don't tell anyone.

[*SCSA]

Hi midwif,

Please don't think that you have to be a certain level, this Gathering won't be that way. It's for all. Beginners, everyone. I just want us all to meet once a year, at least. It's a groovy thang (Rusty) to do.

So are you in? Tell more people, have them post here!

Thanks man, talk to you soon.

[milesb]

John, I think it's completely ridiculous for you to get upset at other skiers' technique. Ott, get him another drink, he's not ready yet!

[John Mason]

I must not be communicating well. Let me clarify. I don't care or get upset at how others ski. I personally perfer the PMTS style.

I do get upset when some of the best the PSIA has to offer get other people injured.

That's all.

Now back to our regullarly scheduled programming.

[RadRab]

Bs"D
Ott, I think that what John means, and it is pretty clear from his written words (John please correct me if otherwise), that poor instruction from unjustifiably glorified "instructors" is what makes him sick. He is not sickened by the masses whose skiing is so non-technical, but the greater instruction machine that cultivates this inaptitude in its somewhat innocent ?victims?.
But, I will add, echoing my previous comments (in ?Kraut?), that it is a frustrating result of the underlying problem of the mainstream system when you see common skiers, not only having fun in the waves for themselves ? which is valid ? but actively ?teaching? other even lesser swimmers their ?technique?. I watched in amazement as a guy was trying to get his poor ?uninitiated? girlfriend to get it ?right?. With his skis stuck together and facing straight downhill, he literally tilted his head to the left ? as a windup ? and then flung it to the right with his whole upper body following in an almost violent twist, as his legs together made a hard (noisy) slide to the opposite side. He just continued to fan from side to side as he swept the few vertical feet he could manage at this extremely slow speed (nothing wrong with slow speed if that?s what you like, but he had no choice! This ?technique? can only work at very slow speeds on flat groomed softpack).
He didn?t just go out and enjoy himself, he was actively ?teaching? his girlfriend, who was in awe of his ?expertise?. (?Oh, don?t worry Becky, I won?t take you to any difficult terrain. I?ll stay here with you, and keep helping you.? Yeah, don?t worry Becky, he isn?t going anywhere, I guarantee it.).
So, you wouldn?t be sickened by people who have fun in the waves, even if they are not world class swimmers. But, you might be turned off to a large self perpetuating system of "wave riding" instructors who indirectly, and unitentionally, create such results as the silly Sunday bather who, thinking that this is the best it gets, actively teaches his girlfriend to let the wave pull you under and smack your head against the bottom, as long as you master the main expert move of holding your breath really tight.

[*SCSA]

What do we need to do to put this instructor thang (Rusty) to bed? John, take that tremendous amount of energy you have, put it into your skiing.


Let's just focus on our training, let the rest be. We're not going to change the world here. We've said all there is to say. John, read between the lines with what Ott says.

Let's take the high road now, shine it on (CA term for MilesB). Stay positive. Rather than beetching about the gang, let's just focus on spreading the word in the most positive way. I'm more than happy to share my knowledge about skiing. Matter of fact, I love to. If people want to learn/train/study PMTS, they know where to find us. I'd also like everyone to know that when you do find us, you'll be greeted with a big smile. We might even say, "We're as happy as a hooker with new shoes to meet ya"!

10-4?

And on that note, I'm off to the Love Land for some....................that's right, you guessed it...........................................
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmilk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You he/she/its be cool, I'll talk to you soon.

[John Mason]

Rad - you had a great paraphrase. I'm actually not trying to create any conflict. I'm just stating how I now realize that it's a waste of energy to try to reconcile much of the bad side of PSIA. What they think is good I see as inefficient skiing. The goal of making sure the student had a good time rather than progressed in their skiing does upset me.

Three type of PSIA instructors I have observed this year with varying levels of reaction in me occured this year:

1. Instruction from skiers that themselves ski great but then actually try to fit their student into the TTS progression and don't even realize how they ski themselves (since they started at 2 and their body figured it out, but they never logically have understood) bothers me. It leads to a waste of time and money.

2. Then we have the ones that don't ski well themselves and also teach with no understanding, those make me the sadest. It's just a pretty broken profession. And lots of people in PSIA agree with me.

3. Then we have the people that instruct that ski well and understand how they are skiing and do communicate it well but have a style of skiing that is not the most efficient. I don't mind those types too much because at least they are not complete skiing hypocrites.

But then, and probably why I'm a bit bent here, some of the type 3 types attack me somewhat personally and have told me that I'm completely brainwashed and that I should ski with them so they can fix me. Then I have lost respect for even those people. And these are some of the supposed "friendly" people that have spent time attacking PMTS over the past few years that seem ok now. It's a ruse. Nothing has changed. Whatever way they can undercut what is happening in the ski industry from Haralds work they seem to be trying to do.

The positive approach is to just keep doing our thing, reach out to interested skiers or instructors, but not waste time arguing obvious points of ski technique.

Now if some of these people would attend one of Haralds camp - like the instructor camp in November - with some good Diana video analysis. Then I'd waste time with them. Because then they'd have experience in both teaching systems like I do. But currently the passive/aggressive undercutting approach going on is out of line.

But, ski with people? Sure. Ski with people to get unbrainwashed? Just pipe in on a technical discussion of what fashion I've been brainwashed. Then we can both learn from the give and take.

[Ott Gangl]

You are doing it again, John. How about never talking about PSIA and TTS again, good or bad, just comment on your progress with your skiing and PMTS, and if the PSIA guys comment about your skiing or PMTS in a negative way, just let it roll off your back.

Good skiing is good skiing.

....Ott

[RadRab]

Bs"D
Ok, in the final analysis, SCSA and Ott are probably right. We have got it off our chests, now enough of this talk.
From either side it works:
If you really want to change them, maybe the Peace; Love; and Understanding thing is the way.
And, if that doesn't work, the situation just leaves more room for us on the other runs, and more powder, so what are we complaining about.