Tipping

PMTS Forum

Tipping

Postby njdiver85 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:05 am

My understanding of PMTS is that we should always be focused on continually increasing our tipping throughout our turn just up to the point of release.

However, I was recently watching the Harb Ski System video, "Performance Free Skiing" when HH made the following comment:

“Look toward the apex of the next turn as you come around the arc. Pick the spot middle-way between the High-C and the bottom or the release. Aim to be up on the full edge angles by the apex. Build the arc above the apex and you will have an arc where the skis hold easily until the release.”

My guess is that the comment was intended to focus the skier on early tipping at the start of the turn and higher tipping angles in general by creating a mental picture or goal of maximum tipping by the apex. Perhaps with the implied idea that one would still strive to continue to increase tipping throughout the remainder of the turn?
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Re: Tipping

Postby Max_501 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:21 pm

h.harb wrote:Another skier and coach who has this ability is Peter Dodge, brother of Dave Dodge, Dodge boots. I've known Peter for over 40 years as a racer and coach. He's currently, Head coach at Dartmouth. I said to Peter one day, 3 or 4 years ago, ]The big difference between great skiers, and racers, is that they never stop increasing tipping movement through the turn. This immediately resonated for him. He responded,
"i never thought of it that way, but that's it in a nutshell. Never stop tipping in a turn, I love it."


geoffda wrote:The starting point for this discussion is black level PMTS skiing. Until you have the ability to perform all of the Essentials with full range of motion (or you have some elite athletic gifts like exceptional balance coupled with world cup feet) you likely won't have the necessary movements to support continuous tipping throughout the turn. When you get the point where this can be developed, it isn't really something you can drill. You can (and should) practice tipping garlands and onesies with the focus being on continuous tipping, but that isn't actually enough. There is a critical timing component that can only be developed through skiing. The tipping is continous, but the rate of tipping isn't constant. Plus, the turn has to continue far longer than you might think (based on feel) to finish for speed control. This requires tremendous flexion and CA at the finish. You can see how much of these movements Heluva is applying to work the ski around to get enough finish for speed control. And yet one more thing factors into this. It isn't enough to get the timing right and be continuously tipping. You also have to learn how to do this without ever pushing against the ski with sole of your foot. What we are after is making the ski slice. Of the rare examples of skiers who continuously tip, it is an even smaller number who can demonstrate this without grinding their edges. Consider figuring out how to make all of these things work properly your PhD thesis in skiing. Nobody can hold your hand at this level.


Max_501 wrote:Great description of the "tipping point". Nearly every black level PMTS skier that can't/won't put their hip on the snow has a point where they stop tipping. It might be 12" from the snow or 2" from the snow, but they come to a point where the tipping stalls and as Geoff has suggested it is usually psychology rather than physiology that is the culprit.
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Re: Tipping

Postby h.harb » Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:00 am

If you read further and study my writings you will see that even with high angles at the Apex, you can continue tipping by giving in by flexing the outside leg slightly and then adding more tipping angles. I won't explain it in detail here, it is in the literature.
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