Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

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Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby mark_l » Tue Feb 19, 2019 3:45 pm

Salomon recently released "Art of the Turn 2" on youtube which features 2018 Olympic Bronze medalist, Victor Muffat-Jeandet.



The following frames come from around the 1:15 mark and offer less used perspective which is (at least for me) more easily interpretable. Being near the start of my PMTS journey it has helped crystallise a lot of what is the in the books surrounding the transition so I thought I'd share my screenshots and the video link. Holding CA through the change of edges and the 'O' frame are all very clear to observe. Note on youtube you can step fwd and back frame by frame using the ',' and '.' keys, a really useful feature.

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Hope this helps someone!
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby jbotti » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:02 pm

Nicely done with the frame shots. And welcome to the PMTS forum!
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby l2ski » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:06 am

I haven't posted in a while but nice frame shots! I also do these frame shots
of Harald's videos but the clarity and resolution here is better.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby h.harb » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:25 pm

Nicely picked out photo frames, they really demonstrate PMTS. Muffat Jeandet (as did Hirscher both are PMTS perfect, as is Clemmet Neal) came along 20 years after I wrote my first book. PMTS is the technique of today on the world cup.

I've written about what the top world cup racers of today do; 20 to 30 years ago. If you aren't 10 years ahead of what you need, you are 10 years behind by the time you get there. PSIA is 40 years behind and USSA is right along with them. If USSA had used what I wrote 30 years ago, I know we would have a ski team on the world cup today.

V.M.J. is a great skier and technician, he has had his bad years due to boot set up. If I were coaching him I'd get him off Salomons. Salomon has the weakest support and alignment of all the technical boots, even Fischer is doing a somewhat better job on a few racers. If you watch the combined slalom you will see how badly the skiers on Salomon are set.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby zeus » Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:42 pm

banned!
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby noobSkier » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:12 pm

Image

But seriously, olympic caliber athletes are rare and even rarer to catch them young. Your question doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby jbotti » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:54 pm

Harald coached Tommy Moe in Alaska as a junior. Last I checked he won Olympic Gold in Lillehammer.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby ErikCO » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:35 am

Just a couple of thoughts.

First, Hirscher and Schiffrin have clearly come to PMTS techniques (though they probably couldn't express them very clearly, see for example viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5452 for a discussion on the disconnect between how a skier thinks they ski and a real explanation) one way or another. There is a reason that the two of them have been dominating the technical ski events for quite some time.

Second, to end up coaching someone at the olympic level, you are going to have to be very involved with race programs. Here in the US, race programs (and race parents) are dominated by PSIA. I imagine Harald doesn't feel like wasting his time dealing with the politics that would be necessary to get a possible opportunity to coach someone at that level (and I say possible because the chances of any individual race program turning out an olympic level athlete are low).

Third, I would imagine that it is much more rewarding to work with amateur skiers who appreciate what he (Harald) can give them rather than fight with a hostile program and entitled/hostile parents about coaching philosophy. Seeing the results in top level PMTS skiers who ski as well or better than members of the US ski team or PSIA demo team, with much less time and practice invested, is probably all the example that is needed.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby Hobbit » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:38 am

A user profile with the bogus email address and hiding behind a VPN provider.
Why even spend time and effort on this site? Did Harald get to them that bad? :)

I guess some new users are not aware of the PSIA crusaders coming here in the past and the kind of discussions they wanted to convey.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:51 am

We know PMTS works at the highest levels because we can see the same movements HH teaches being used by the top racers. But that shouldn't be a surprise because HH built PMTS around the movements the top racers were using decades ago.

We are lucky that HH didn't take the WC coaching path because if he had been coaching WC racers then he wouldn't have had the time to create PMTS and the associated books and videos which he made available to the general public. If he was a top WC race coach he'd probably have to keep his program secret to maintain a competitive advantage. IMO, HH has really leveled the playing field when it comes to juniors that want to participate in racing but lack the connections and money to attend the top race programs.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby jbotti » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:01 am

Don't respond to this troll. I would rather not waste my energy banning him.

And to you Zeus, grow up. This battle/war ended years ago.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby zeus » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:24 pm

The cult-like phenomena is more evident here than anywhere else. So many rationalizations and selective use of evidence to promulgate the self-beliefs. It's like a circle jerk here.

Just because some athletes use some movements seen in PMTS is not proof that PMTS is all one would need to succeed at the highest level. Not saying PSIA or any other system is more perfect, but this idea that PMTS is a complete system that is the be-all and end-all of skiing is one without proof, simply because no athlete or top-level coach has ever acknowledged it, and Harald Harb is not one of them.

You can label everyone questioning the gospel as a troll, keep the forum one-sided, and live in the cocoon for ever, but there's no harm in occasionally questioning your beliefs from time to time. Maybe that'll open up new avenues or bring up new ideas to improve on your techniques that you were too closed off to before. And maybe you might even help improve PMTS! (gasp)
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby noobSkier » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:51 pm

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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 2:02 pm

The top WC tech racers demonstrate all of the Essentials in their skiing but one would need much more to succeed at the highest level of the sport. Thousands upon thousands of hours of dedicated training in and out of race courses. Years on the race circuit. Olympic level mental and physical strength. And plenty of luck.

IMO, it takes an open mind to look into and then embrace PMTS because it is so far removed from TTS. Many here have had to deal with criticism for taking the PMTS journey but the positive results are undeniable.
Last edited by Max_501 on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Salomon "Art of the Turn 2" video

Postby HeluvaSkier » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:50 pm

Okay kiddo, let's compare resumes... your supposed resume:



Quick summary of Harald's resume (Harald, I know I'm not doing this justice... but this was just what came to mind):

  • Member of a national ski team
  • Ran a race academy (maybe more than one now that I think of it)
  • Ran the most elite ski school in the U.S.
  • Member of the PSIA Demo Team
  • Offered top-level coaching positions with national teams, but turned them down to take a different path
  • Started his own business to bring knowledge that is only available to a select few who can afford to shell out big $$ to attend ski academies to normal skiers (you must be an idiot to think that NCAA programs and top ski academies that bring in $60k+ per student per year are telling the general public what they teach)
  • Authored 4 books, plus a boot alignment manual aimed at sharing the knowledge gained through a lifetime of skiing and coaching at the top levels of the sport (the most complete library of technical skiing information that exists in the industry)

This doesn't even mention the skiers that HSS aligns or those who seek out HH for private coaching... (e.g. Jon Olsson when he wanted to make a return to the W.C. ...and HH would have never broadcast anything about... it was Jon who made that public knowledge), or the fact that at nearly 70 the guy still rips on skis. Any ONE of the above accomplishments would mark a stellar career for any skier or coach. Harald has done all of it and probably more that I've missed... Seems respectable to me.

Now you, a nobody, anonymous, self-proclaimed beginner skier who can't even ski some heavy New England snow (I'm assuming you're really some disgruntled PSIA or USSA never-was who has some beef with Harald), crawled out from under your rock and are bashing HH for a lack of credentials and insulting the skiers who come here to learn and improve? And if we are in put-up or shut up mode, how about some video hot shot? I'd be happy to embarrass whatever skiing you post in a spectacular fashion. Face it... you don't have an answer to that... If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Enjoy your ban. If you come crawling back, we'll ban you again... but at least grow a pair and post some video to give us all a good laugh.
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