Higher Angles...

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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby h.harb » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:47 am

Because it bent and had a perfect centered flex point.


Explanation: Greg has posted a very good description of skiing steeps and high angle carving. He hits some great points. Just like you can't go 26 mph uphill with a steel bike frame unless you are doping, you can't get high angles on some skis, even some carving skis. Like Greg says, 13-meter skis (with a 65mm waist) don't give you enough platform on soft snow.

They do on hard snow or ice however, the risk factor goes way up. By risk I mean you have to have super sharp edges on your skis and you have to get the tip pressured to start the carve. This requires at least racing background maybe even FIS levels. If you screw up; get jetted, the consequences are not funny.

The easiest and safest way to learn is to have perfectly groomed corduroy that has a slight give. A ski of about 72cm to 76cm is ideal. The ski should be soft enough to bend from the middle and the tip should be wide enough to pull you through the arc. My runs on Dreamcatcher are on TT80 Head skis that were 67cm underfoot. I have a pair of Euro version Myia's that have the same sidecut now. Not the best set up for tight high carving, but they ski very well.

A center flex point means when you are at the apex and fully committed the ski will continue bending at the same rate. Tightening the radius at this point is crucial. I do it by flexing slightly and then increasing the tipping and CB.

If the tail of the ski is too stiff it isn't a center flexing ski. A stiff tail will jet you out or accelerate you too early. This means your feet won't stay under your hips which means big speed and a less than a finished arc.
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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby SkiMoose » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:55 pm

Ok thanks for the further explanation. I am skiing Fischer RC4 SC's all the time right now, which seems like it is probably making things a little bit tougher. I will have to find a way to get on some different skis to try some of this out. Something from 72 to 76 will definitely be added to the list of skis I want but can't afford! :lol: For now I'll just keep working on faster releases and steeper slopes with everything you guys mentioned in mind. I did have one day a A-basin a last weekend where the snow on Sundance in the early morning matched up with the skis nicely and my hip dropped to the snow easily (I know that's not a goal, but I'm just using it as an external cue). I was definitely able to feel what you guys are talking about though, and it was cool to see how much of a factor that plays.
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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby HeluvaSkier » Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:10 am

SkiMoose wrote:I am skiing Fischer RC4 SC's all the time right now, which seems like it is probably making things a little bit tougher.


It really depends on the snow surface. If it is soft, sure the SC doesn't have enough platform to keep the arc clean. If you're on hard(er) snow (do you even get that in Colorado? :lol: ), a 72-76mm ski will be at it's absolute limit... and likely give you less confidence as it will be prone to chattering out of turns at the SLIGHTEST hint of a stall, or even slow down, in tipping and flexing/absorbing. The strength and feel for the snow to pull that off is truly next-level skiing.

I frequently ski a Fischer WC RC (175 for SL turns or 185 for GS turns) a lot and really like that ski across most snow conditions, so I think you're working with the right equipment.

As for having your hip down on Sundance... Unless on the steeper pitch at the top, that trail is too flat to get the hip down without forcing it unnaturally. You simply can't get the speed required to ski those kinds of angles there. If there are girls around, sure, go ahead and show off, but generally I'd use that kind of terrain as a no-consequences training ground to build technical expertise. Even on High Noon, only the top pitch has enough steepness to really get the skis working to where you can pull big angles... The rest of the time you can just let them run assuming you're keeping your hip high and forward at release.
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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby HeluvaSkier » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:50 am

Here is a clip of me from Loveland last week (thanks for Geoffda for filming this for me). You'll notice several of Harald's points [quoted below], are present in this clip. The ski is a 182cm Blossom White Out.



h.harb wrote:The easiest and safest way to learn is to have perfectly groomed corduroy that has a slight give. A ski of about 72cm to 76cm is ideal. The ski should be soft enough to bend from the middle and the tip should be wide enough to pull you through the arc.

A center flex point means when you are at the apex and fully committed the ski will continue bending at the same rate. Tightening the radius at this point is crucial. I do it by flexing slightly and then increasing the tipping and CB.


From the Blossom thread:
h.harb wrote:Tip it further and further with the lower body, (ankles, knees, and legs) basically, the better it holds and carves.

Learning to make this ski do what you want it to will tell you if you have achieved proper lower body angle development through proper continuous tipping.
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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby Darren » Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:58 pm

HeluvaSkier wrote:
jbotti wrote:
HeluvaSkier wrote:HH is pushing 70 and many can out power-lift by 100's of lbs yet he continues to ski at a ridiculously high level.


Given all his climbing and training like a professional athlete year-round for decades, I would wager he's much stronger than his frame lets on--especially the core.


As muscles get bigger they get stronger though each pound of added muscle is less efficient as the angle of pull changes as the muscle gets further away from the bone.
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Re: Higher Angles...

Postby SkiMoose » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:37 pm

Ok thanks Heluva, I could have definitely been doing something weird on Sundance. I'll have to try and get video next time. I have been working on CA, pulling back the inside foot, and flexing that leg as edge angles get higher. Right now it's sort of a pick 2 kind of deal. I'll post some video if I can get any of decent quality worth posting. Great skiing by you as always!
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