Advice/terms that make zero sense to SCSA

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Advice/terms that make zero sense to SCSA

Postby -- SCSA » Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:46 pm

Greetings and salutations!

One thing about PMTS, the stuff is real easy to understand. I don't know about you all, but I'm no rocket scientist. So here's some stuff that I hear/read all the time -- not from HH mind you -- that makes zero sense to me. Feel free to add to the list!

1) Roll your ankles.
Say what? How the hey do you roll your ankles?

2) Steering.
I steer a car with my hands, my bike with my hands. I can't think of one thing, that I steer with my feet.

3) Dorsi flexion.
I have no idea what this is.

4) Go there moves.
Yeah? Can you first tell me how to get there?

5) Tip to the pinky toe side.
I have a pinky finger...

6) Look where you're going.
I'm going downhill! Shouldn't I look downhill then?

7) Roll your knees.
I just did. I had to roll my knees a bunch, before my feet got any angles to them.

8) Hands in front.
Way too vague. Hands in front where? What position? How high?

Anybody else?
-- SCSA
 

Advice/terms that make zero sense to SCSA

Postby Bluey » Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:12 pm

SCSA,

I have trouble with the phrase "Pull your feet back under your body"

Let me elaborate.....when I'm standing statinery on my skis I can't do this....my feet are glue to the ground by gravity. To move my feet back I would need to jump up in the air so as to free my feet from the ground then whilst I'm in mid air I could then move my feet back, before I land back down on the ground.
If I can't do it when I'm statinery.....how can I do it when I'm moving/skiing??. ( Hint ....see below for answer ).

However, if my feet foot is lightened then I can move my Free Foot back under my body/hips.....but only my free foot , certainly not my stance foot.
Therefore I will accept the phrase "Pull your foot back under your body" ( difference is that I'm using the word "foot" not "feet" in this new phrase and I'm referring to the free foot not the stance foot ).


More corrctly, what I can also do is move my centre of gravity/ ( body/hips ) forward over my ski boots so that the effect is the ski boots are now under my hips. That is both feet are now under my body !! Phew, made it !!


So I think the better expression should be " Move your body forward over your feet".
This may sound a bit trite but for the novice skier there is so much jargon and conflicting advice that I think the phrase "Pull your feet back under your body" should be banished and be replaced with what is biomechanically really required viz. " Move your body forward over your feet".
I noticed even HH uses "pulling the feet back under your body". ( I refer you to book 1 Pg 128).

Enough said about a minor sloppy phrase......



Bluey




Last one down's a dirty snowball !!
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Postby jclayton » Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:05 pm

A lot of these terms noted by SCSA have been in use for a while ( along with lots of others) and rank along with all those golf tips which got everyone nowhere fast . They are like skiings version of "soundbites" , politically correct,innocuos and superficial . Good instruction has to have a method and start from the basics and work forward with consistent , concrete use of language .
Many instructors in my experience use these "tips" to quickly fill a lesson and get them through a bad hangover . Seriously they are a quick fix which can be played around with for the lesson then forgotten later .

The concept of moving the feet back is not as silly as Bluey seems to think. I have read articles by race coaches who have used this concept for some years . Racers started doing this at initiation of the turn as it is quicker to move the feet back than try to move the body forward , less mass . It is possible because the skiis are sliding but balance is necessary , if you are seriously in the back seat it is very difficult in my experience. Try as you finish a turn sliding your feet back and forth using your hamstrings . The feeling should be of pulling your heels back and slightly up towards your butt.

In most turns on groomed it is only necessary to move the inside ski back but in bumps both legs can be moved back aggressively as you relax and flex to absorb the crest . You can really feel the tension in the hamstrings. In my case it seems to work better in the bumps if I feel both legs moving back rather than just one . Also in my experience trying to move the upper body forward feels clumsy,slow and often upsets balance and the feeling in my feet is one of heaviness .

Or maybe the snow is very sticky in Oz . Trying to do it while stationary is not so easy either .
skinut ,among other things
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Advice/terms that make zero sense to SCSA

Postby Bluey » Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:14 pm

jclayton,


Thanks for pointing out how you think the feet can be moved under the body whilst making a turn.........I was l having difficulty with the concept from the physics point of view and it took me a while to come to grips with what you were advising.

Let me recap......You commented..."I have read articles by race coaches who have used this concept for some years . Racers started doing this at initiation of the turn as it is quicker to move the feet back than try to move the body forward , less mass . It is possible because the skiis are sliding but balance is necessary..............Try as you finish a turn sliding your feet back and forth using your hamstrings . The feeling should be of pulling your heels back and slightly up towards your butt.............".

You are quite right a sliding situation is the key.
If the skis were truly gripping the snow, then, from the physics point of view, you couldn't do it.
So, as the's no snow around 'cause its summer here in Australia ( just go back from the beach ), I tried your suggestion by a simple experiment of sitting on a chair and sliding my feet backwards and forwards and it worked (The chair gave me the balance aspect). But......

But this raised a new point for me.......for the skis to be sliding it would imply, to me, that the pulling back of the feet has to be done at some point between the Release and at some point before the next Engagement.

Then, you also commented further on in your reply.......
"In most turns on groomed it is only necessary to move the inside ski back but in bumps both legs can be moved back aggressively as you relax and flex to absorb the crest . You can really feel the tension in the hamstrings. In my case it seems to work better in the bumps if I feel both legs moving back rather than just one . Also in my experience trying to move the upper body forward feels clumsy,slow and often upsets balance and the feeling in my feet is one of heaviness . "

This confirmed my thinking about your response, namely, the pulling back of the feet has to be done at some point between the Release and at some point before the next Engagement.....which is what I understand you to be saying above in respect to bumps.

In conclusion, I agree with you that trying to move the upper body forward does feel clumsy,slow and often does upset my balance.......in fact I try to minimise any movement of the upper body for that very reason.


Thanks again for your insight on the circumstances under which pulling the feet back under the body can work.
I'll now go back and reread Harald's Books 1 & 2 to make sure I've fully grasped this concept.


Bluey



Last one down's a dirty snowball[/code]
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Postby jclayton » Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:01 am

Hi Bluey

Glad I could help a bit , I've given this a lot of thought on and off the slopes .

When on the groomed the pulling back is done just after the "float" ( see page 89 book 2 ) this action of letting the skis float is great to play with on the slopes , lengthening or shortening it at will . I saw HH do it at Loveland last Dec . as he floated balanced on both skis they described a flatski arc for a couple of skilengths , not skidding just curving down towards the fall line before he engaged the new edges . He demonstated this doing garlands and you can really see if you are in balance by checking the tracks . A few inches of soft snow are best for this .

In bumps the pulling back I think is done just after the trough as you rise up the new crest so I guess it is done during the float anyway everything is done earlier , anticipating the bumps .In bumps it is still difficult for me to get everything working in unison .

For summer you might be interested in the Harb Carvers , I got myself a pair but haven't yet tried them ( lots of snow here )

Which beach did you go to I have an uncle living in Manly Beach ( and I miss the surf living in Spain )

Jeremy
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Postby Bluey » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:28 am

jclayton,

In answer to your question, I went to DY......its changed over the past coupla years.....lots of little up-market restaurants near the beach front now.....but its still got its Norfolk Is'd pines lining the foreshore ......however, yesterday, the waves were small and breaking close to the beach......only got a few ...the water temp was great... very refreshing ....DY's still got plenty of white sand and great scenery.....great place Sydney.....its got everything except it's a 6 bloooody hour long drive to the snow at Perisher Blue and another 6 long hours to drive back again .....I'm usually wacked on the Monday morning following a trip to Perisher.

This year I'm planning on flying over to New Zealand for some skiing. It's only a 45 minute drive to the airport.....I'll use up some Frequent Flyer points and try the quality of snow in NZ......never been before.....planning to go to Queenstown, which is right on the lake and has The Remarkables, Coronet Peak, Wanaka and Cardrona ski fields all within approx 25 mins. - 1 hr's drive out of Queenstown.
Lito even has a review of The Remarkables on his website and Warren Miller has featured it in one of his old movies.....

I understand that usually the snows "better" in NZ ( read deeper and starts earlier in the season ).......but I've been spoilt with Perisher Blue in Oz which has over 50 chairlifts whereas most of these NZ resorts have only about 6 -7 lifts.......I guess they're a bit like Charlotte Pass........after one day of skiing I'd done all the runs at CP a few times and was looking for some variety.......so having 4 ski fields in NZ close to Queenstown should give me the variety I need........anyway it beats driving 6 hours each way !!!

If anyone has any tips on NZ ski fields I'd be interested to hear.....'cause I'll be flying into Auckland and will drive down the coast road passing a few skifileds along the way to Queenstown........so any tips will be appreciated....



Time to get some ZZZZZ's



Bluey



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