Drills vs. Tasks

PMTS Forum

Drills vs. Tasks

Postby precisionchiro » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:07 am

Can anyone confirm if I'm understanding these two correctly?

It's my understanding that a drill is a focused movement designed to isolate one (or more) individual skills, mainly used to introduce and/or develop that skill without necessarily worrying about any other skills. (boot touch exercises, tipping in traverses, super phantoms, Angry Mother, etc.)

A task is more of an "end level" or comprehensive "challenge" that requires effective blending of all (or most) skills, mainly used to check overall technique. (Javelin turns, one ski skiing, thousand steps, even one or two footed releases?)

Typically, a drill is used for learning, a task is used for testing/checking.

I know this is probably not a black and white distinction, but I'm a stickler for professionals (coaches and instructors) using clear and accurate terminology. For example, I've been recently watching other race coaches use (well, attempting to use) A LOT of one ski skiing -- taking one ski off at the top of the hill -- as a learning tool. And that learning tool consists of the coaches skiing down halfway to watch/video, showing the kids their video during lunch, and telling them little more than "See that, Kayla? Where are your hips? Gotta get forward more to get pressure on the front of the ski!!! OK?"

More than half the kids struggle with it... all I can see is ALL of the skills they may be working on this season just deteriorate into a run of multiple bailouts and body disorganization as they try to survive their way to the bottom. :(

That's it. That's the extent of coaching for that TASK (Am I right? Am I right?) of one ski skiing. Nothing before, nothing after. Then off to set up a course for gate practice after lunch.

To me, that's not a "drill." And it sounds wrong to hear a coach say "OK! Let's do some one ski skiing drills!"

Thoughts?
precisionchiro
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:44 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:45 am

I've not heard the term 'task' or 'skill' used in PMTS. We talk about movements and the drills that reinforce one or more of those movements. When I coach (myself or others), I always try to use drills that can translate well to actual skiing. Most (if not all) PMTS drills can be skied into linked turns, while retaining the targeted movement pattern. Now that I'm thinking through it... I don't know of a single PMTS drill that CAN'T be transitioned into linked turns. I find, for myself and others, this makes a huge impact on the ultimate effectiveness because the skier understands the desired outcome if they perform the drill correctly (and how the desired outcome will feel during a real turn if replicated correctly).

IMO, one-ski skiing (leaving a ski behind) does not translate well to actual skiing, especially for kids, because of the affects it has on the athletes' balance (skis are a huge percentage of their body weight... when you take one away it has a profound affect). One footed skiing with both skis still on is another story... That can more closely replicate a 'real' skiing environment and can have its uses, though I still view it more as a trick than an actual drill. Many/most of the current 'tasks' that are part of USSA skills quest are no more than stupid human tricks that will never translate to an expert ski turn. Anyone who argues that can't make an expert-level turn.
Discipline is the refining fire by which talent becomes ability.

www.youtube.com/c/heluvaskier
User avatar
HeluvaSkier
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:29 pm
Location: Western New York

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby dewdman42 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:26 pm

both PSIA and USSA are hopelessly lost in the weeds with the skills concept and skills quest. Make no mistake. A couple years ago I went and did the USSA level 100 for what the heck and we had to ski with one ski off as part of the assessment. I was like, what does that prove?

All that being said, I do think there is a place for the kind of skill development they propose in skillquest, just not to the extent that they do it and DEFINITELY not as a replacement to technique development. That is where they miss the boat. But generally making kids jump through hoops and balance in all manner of ways and move in all manner of ways to generally develop cat like skills to adapt at a responsive, physiological level...is not totally irrelevant, IMHO. So long as its not built upon shaky foundation of technique.

The problem is that what is missing from both PSIA and USSA is strong foundation of "technique". They are just throwing all the skill building at them and hoping some genius will naturally rise to the top intuitively with their own version of technique I guess. I've actually been to lectures recently by PSIA where they specifically talked down the benefits of "technique" and tried to use physiological mumbo jumbo theory to promote the notion that the human body will adapt and just do the "right thing"..they literally believe that teaching and drilling for technique will get in the way and make someone worse! It baffles me that they don't know better, but that is where it is today.

The great thing about PMTS, as noted above, its based on a solid foundation of solid technique and every drill you encounter in the videos and books reinforce those critical "primary movements". They go to great ends to avoid any kind of drill that would detract in even the slightest way from solid technique of important primary movements. It saddens me greatly to see the rest of the industry migrate away from technique and rather into physiological skill development as their main focus. Especially saddens me to see USSA go there. PSIA has been lost in the weeds for technique for decades already anyway...so nothing new there..they have just given up even trying to call it technique at all now.
dewdman42
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:52 pm

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:47 pm

Great comments by all participants. I do agree with most of what Mikaela had to say about doing an exercise and how it should be presented to athletes. Her key point was every individual must know what they are supposed to achieve with a drill.

That is the first step and it's a huge step forward for USSA if they begin to use it, however, it is not incorporated yet, and this should be a basic introduction before any drills are used or performed. As you might notice I wrote, "for each individual". This is a totally foreign concept for USSA coaching.

Next, I'd like to point out; as was mentioned earlier in the posts, any exercises are most effective if they are directly relatable to the needs of a racer in the race course and to their skiing development. Coaches mostly don't want to take the time to strengthen specific weaknesses to make a complete skier. Why? Because they can't identify the weaknesses and even if they do; don't have the skills to identify what simple movements need practice. The method and coaching in USSA are based on groupthink. Example; if a US development coach says, extend to get forward, all USSA coaches use this approach because they have no way of determining a better approach. Education in USSA is non-existent and if they call it education, it is ineffective and most often detrimental.

To address the original topic, taking a ski off and skiing on one ski. For some skiers, if the exercise is done right and proper feedback is given, this can be effective for those who are strong enough to release with flexing on one leg. If the skier is not strong enough, this exercise would do more harm than good. The weaker skiers will use an extension and leaning to survive with this exercise, and that is a detrimental outcome. This is a distinction that can be not be made by an unqualified coach.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby Max_501 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:27 pm

precisionchiro wrote:It's my understanding that a drill is a focused movement designed to isolate one (or more) individual skills, mainly used to introduce and/or develop that skill without necessarily worrying about any other skills. (boot touch exercises, tipping in traverses, super phantoms, Angry Mother, etc.)

A task is more of an "end level" or comprehensive "challenge" that requires effective blending of all (or most) skills, mainly used to check overall technique. (Javelin turns, one ski skiing, thousand steps, even one or two footed releases?)

Typically, a drill is used for learning, a task is used for testing/checking.


Never seen that distinction in any of the PMTS material. Javelin turns are a drill just as TFRs are. Can they be used as a test? Sure, but that is not their primary purpose.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4051
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:02 pm

501 correct.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby precisionchiro » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:35 am

h.harb wrote:To address the original topic, taking a ski off and skiing on one ski. For some skiers, if the exercise is done right and proper feedback is given, this can be effective for those who are strong enough to release with flexing on one leg. If the skier is not strong enough, this exercise would do more harm than good. The weaker skiers will use an extension and leaning to survive with this exercise, and that is a detrimental outcome. This is a distinction that can be not be made by an unqualified coach.


This is the clarification I was hoping to learn. Thank you, Harald.

I absolutely agree that one ski skiing and Javelin turns CAN be used as drills and as "learning movements" for stronger skiers and racers. But since both of those drills require successful blending of all the Primary Movements, then just throwing those two at less experienced skiers, especially kids, without at least progressing into it (stationary, traverses, garlands, partial turns) seems so haphazard to me.

I think HeluvaSkier makes a great point too -- that what I'm seeing as a difference between "drill and task" just boils down to HOW a drill is being introduced and taught (or not taught). Is it being used as an effective exercise that translates into good skiing movements? Or as random trick that does little or nothing to reinforce correct movements, or even undermines them?

Now I understand why PMTS doesn't even use the word "task."
precisionchiro
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:44 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:23 am

We don't use task or drill, they both have a negative connotation. We use the words practice, movement refinement and sometimes, exercise.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 6772
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Drills vs. Tasks

Postby precisionchiro » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:29 pm

h.harb wrote:We don't use task or drill, they both have a negative connotation. We use the words practice, movement refinement and sometimes, exercise.


Even better.

The definition and originating use of the word "drill" in the dictionary refers to military training, "marching and executing strict and prescribed movements with a weapon." That's not really my idea of teaching and coaching.
precisionchiro
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:44 pm
Location: New Jersey


Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MarcS and 2 guests