Ankle vs. Knee tipping - are they basically the same thing?

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Ankle vs. Knee tipping - are they basically the same thing?

Postby Bun-chan » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:17 pm

I hope someone can help me understand how "ankle tipping" can be done properly.

Ankles are wrapped around with hard shell of ski boots. So, I am not sure if you can actually physically tip your ankle inside stiff ski boot. Ski boots covers up pretty close to our knees, so any movement from ankle up to knee is basically linear, i.e., no or almost no lateral movement at least up to knee. Also. knees do not allow too much lateral movements.

If there were no boot around ankle, I understand that tipping of ankle would be more visible triggering movement of knee and rest of the upper body. But, with ankle wrapped around and fixed with boot, would trying to tip ankle be basically the same thing to tipping knee as far as feet are close/touched together?

By the way, PTMS definitely changed the way I ski. I can see that more active inside foot movement (tipping to the little toe edge) and more passive outside foot are the key to advanced level skiing. While I focus on tipping inside foot/ankle when turning, I don't feel I am continuously tipping enough throughout turn. I feel that I tip initially earlier in the turn, but at some point tipping stops or doesn't tip as much as it should. But focusing more on my knee instead seems to allow me to tip continuously and to have much tighter turns if needed.

I don't mean to cut corners, but would like have thoughts on this from anyone who understand what I am wondering about.

Thank you.
Last edited by Bun-chan on Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ankle vs. Knee tipping - do they amount to the same thin

Postby Max_501 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:48 pm

h.harb wrote:I never focus on anything to do with knees when it comes to tipping the skis or increasing angles. If you concentrate on knees for angle development, you will end up with wrong conclusions about skiing. Look at the boots and skis, look for the angles there, they never lie.

If you study biomechanics and take an alignment course, you will begin to understand why this is true. Not many skiers want to know that much about how the body moves. Because analyzing all of the prevailing circumstances included in skiing like: leg length, foot structure, boot alignment, cuff alignment, range of motion, boot design, boot fit, shin curve, on and on, you will drive yourself crazy trying to explain it.

That's why PMTS was developed, to make ski analysis simple and conclusive, black and white. If you look at knees for ski movements; you will open Pandora's box and that never works. Look at the Epic (PSIA) topics and technical discussions, they go from random to ridicules. I never use knees as a determiner of angles in my literature or publications and for good reason.

I do use knee bend or leg flexing to instruct how much range of leg length, you should have at any given moment or movement. That is totally different.


And see this older discussion: ski boot limits ankle tipping
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Re: Ankle vs. Knee tipping - are they basically the same thi

Postby NoCleverName » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:50 am

Particularly informative is Diana Roger's Essentials Indoor Introduction video on the Harb Ski Systems eVideo page. She does everything in bare feet, demonstrating the action and power of foot movements.

https://harbskisystems.com/collections/evideos/products/essentials-indoor-introduction-evideo

About the best $10 you will ever spend on skiing.
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Re: Ankle vs. Knee tipping - are they basically the same thi

Postby Bun-chan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:00 pm

Max_501 and NoCleverName:

Thanks for your info.
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