Trouble getting back to the front of the boot....

PMTS Forum

Postby BigE/Erik » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:30 am

If a skier is actively moving their mass down the hill, then the skier will find the front of their boot regardless of where they are in the turn.


Please explain the things you do when you are moving your mass down the hill.
BigE/Erik
 

Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:45 am

BigE/Erik wrote:
Please explain the things you do when you are moving your mass down the hill.


Erik,

Things happen because of one's attitude. I would explore why a student isn't moving their mass down the hill because of their attitude and not because of the things they aren't doing. Attitude is the cause and the things are the effect. Dollars to donuts that fear is the culprit. Aggression and a sense of purpose is the solution.

Most of skiing's skills are found with attitude. Refinement can be found in the things.

I know that's not what you were looking for, Erik. But, a banal discussion of things is just that ...banal. Within 30 seconds, you'll loose you'll audience with the techese of skiing.
gravity
 
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Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:52 am

...but to answer your question.

Every part of my body has a sense of moving down the hill. Those are the things.

eg. If I see a person's hands by their sides them I'm going to ask them why they are being lazy? "It looks to me like you aren't that interested in moving your hands down the hill in the most earnest way you can."

If I see that their torso is leaned into the hill, then I'm going to ask about that too.

I see the progression towards better a skiing a self discovery process whereby an instructor will pose a question and let their student seek the truth. I think this is part of the reason video is so revealing to students. It provides a huge window for them to see and discover their self.
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Postby BigE » Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:17 am

But mechanics are not banal. They are real. As people are asking questions on bulletin boards, you don't have the luxury to see them to make them "discover". They want to know about mechanics.

Many ski "better" to an outside observer after making their "discoveries". Yet the student may remain quite unconscious of why they are skiing better. Ahh, they think: "I've brought a different attitude to the hill -- that's the whole thing".

Incapable of reducing the turn into component parts, they will eventually fall back into the same bad habits. Why? Because they were not told which habits they should be adopting, and why they are better.

As my father says: "You really only know it when you can teach it."

Here's a statement which is true, requires a major attitude adjustment from most intermediate skiers, but teaches them nothing:

"If you are locked in position through the turn and not constantly adjusting your balance then you are probably not in balance at all."

It does make them think, and think about moving to adjust balance, but it does not tell them what movements may be appropriate. Exactly where should they balance? Are the movements with hip, knee, ankle, arms, all? Just how does it all work? How does each movement contribute to the overall balanced turn? Which is why I asked the question in the first place.

Every system has "rudiments". Moving your body down the hill along with the skiis not a rudimentary act -- it is the net effect of doing a bunch of rudimentary actions correctly. Whether these rudiments are found within the PMTS box or the PSIA box or the CSIA box or the European/Asian boxes it doesn't matter. They are all still boxes.

Having knowledge of the rudiments, and being able to describe them and get others to do them is actual teaching. HH's rudiments just happen to be a bit different from the others. But I think they all take you to the same end. PMTS may be more efficient or not, or it may help break bad habits, whatever. It's just nice to see a new way of approaching the activity...

Cheers!
BigE
 
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Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:23 am

BigE wrote:But mechanics are not banal. They are real. As people are asking questions on bulletin boards, you don't have the luxury to see them to make them "discover". They want to know about mechanics.



Fair enough E. I must confess, I'm not a pro instructor. I did join PSIA for a season to get my level III nordic downhill. It was a two day clinic and one day test. Pretty much nailed the skiing (7-9) and failed my teaching ...and I mean failed! I got a reprieve after much ado between trainers and passed the teaching on the second try. Result ...silver pin.

So, there you have it. I'm no teacher. But I do like the quest for more knowledge and refining skills. May I still play here?
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Postby BigE » Tue Feb 10, 2004 11:54 am

I'm just playing too. 8)

I'm just trying very hard to learn about this sport, and I tend to be a bit reductionist about it. Which makes me think about it too much when I'm doing it. And more when I'm not apparently. I make mistakes I don't detect, cuz I'm thinking about something else. Or I'm not thinking at all, and I detect and learn nothing.

Somewhere, there is a balance..... hey that's funny, it 's all about balance!
:lol:

Cheers!
BigE
 
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Postby Guest » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:45 pm

Image :lol:
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Postby ~gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:46 pm

Image :lol:
~gravity
 

Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:51 pm

I think that I double posted without signing in. :oops:
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Postby BigE » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:39 pm

My 7 year old daughter is on a Nancy Greene team at our home hill. She was fully accepted until the older girls found out that she is just 7. These kids are mostly 9 and 10. She is the only 7 yr old on the team.

Two weeks ago, feeling their rejection, she blew up at them at the top of the hill. Now, she is a well respected team member. The line:

"It's all about skiing isn't it?!"

:o
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Postby BigE » Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:40 pm

Forgot to add --- not about thinking....!

Cheers
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Postby gravity » Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:08 pm

Props to BigE's little Betty. She leans into the front of the boot and into the girls who disrespect her.
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Postby BigE » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:06 am

In reality, she has trouble staying forward enough, it's related to how low she goes into the turn. She is pretty upright. I have a sequence of photos of her doing it, getting into the backseat, and recovering. But during the recovery she pivoted her outside ski to slow it down and get it back under her body. At 7 strength is an issue.

The problem is probably boots that are too stiff. I had her loosen the cuff somewhat, and I think that helped, but only a little.

I'm going to give her the toes up tip, and see what happens.

If that works, we are going to play cossacks, and I'll have her kick the outside foot into the turn, by pressing forwards on the ball of the outside foot. She should adopt an exaggerated racing "A" position -- not quite Bode, but far from upright. She has to be forward to do that!

If that works, we'll play "How low can you go?" while dancing like cossacks.

Then it's up to her to organize herself between the gates to get into that low position.

What do you think of that progression? Remember, she is only 7, and does not think in technical terms whatsoever.
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