New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby Vailsteve » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:21 pm

Makes perfect sense Geoff. Tnx. I get that dorsiflexion can and will lift the tip. I am going to have to "practice" this tomorrow...or in reality, try to focus on lifting the tip and see what it does to my fore/aft balance .

Good thing is I am working in the red jacket this week so should have ample time to play...

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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:51 am

The next step even after the tip lift is converting it to a tail lift in the actual turn, This happens with pull back, (not actually trying to lift the back) it's obvious with the world cup guys. Hirscher lost the race over the last knoll going into the side ways hairpin, Christofferson hit that turn perfectly in Wengen, margin was by .15
Hirscher is on track to win six overalls in a row, it's never been done, both are records, 5 in a row and six overalls have never been accomplished he could be good for 7 or even 8.
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby nickia » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:09 pm

Few questions:

1. How to practice this movement?
2. What kind of PMTS skills should one mastered before practicing this?
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby Kiwi » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:16 pm

I start my new stance side counter acting when the little toe edge of the old stance ski engages. I assume by the time the old stance ski engages it's little toe edge, as new inside ski, the foot pull back is occurring. If this remains true when tip lift is used, does the better or faster facilitation of counter resulting from tip lift mean that the desire to hold counter through the transition, is not focused on, when tip lift is used to speed up the transition and new counter??
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby NoCleverName » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:23 am

I'm wondering if "tip lift" is actually a natural consequence of getting to neutral (which essentially is upright and level) and the fact that there is a slope. Since the slope falls away from the level, a gap opens up. So what would appear to be a "lift" is really just geometry. But it would also be a cue that you in fact properly got to neutral.

Is perception not reality? 8)
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby cheesehead » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:09 am

I tried this yesterday. After an hour or two my hamstrings were screaming. So I am assuming that was good. It actually seems to help with the pullback. I have lots of other things to worry about. My first time on the snow this season (I had some back spasm issues I had to rest the last 2 weeks).

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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby Kiwi » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:25 pm

Ignore my post above. Nothing changes in terms of movements except for the tip lift which is followed by pull back as normal, from what I experienced when I tried this today. Seemed to me that not much of a tip lift is required to obtain the a desired effect.
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby h.harb » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:36 pm

It's impossible to lift the tip too high, as opposed to lifting the tail; which is often lifted far too much.
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby rwd » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:34 pm

It's interesting: on p.34 of ACBES 2, where Harrison demonstrates the basic short turn, he uses the sequence of tip lift, tilt to engage, then pull back. However, in the Short Turn e-video, Diana demonstrates just tail lift. I find that I can lift the tail primarily by contracting the hamstrings, but to lift the tip requires more hip flexor contraction, as well as dorsiflexion with the shin muscles. Does this refined understanding of releasing with fore-aft centering have implications for the two-footed and weighted releases, ie should we be engaging the hip flexors and performing a dorsiflexion movement, even though the tips may not actually lift?
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby Max_501 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:29 pm

Flexing the ankle (dorsiflexion) has always been part of the game so keep on dorsiflexing!

For more detail on Dorisflexion
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby Ihamilton » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:52 pm

I'm enrolled as a camper in next weeks camp and I came down a week early to acclimatize to the altitude.
I was in last years bump camp and came away from that with a couple of exercises to practice and the realization that I'm not going to improve my skiing much or will improve at a rate that is too slow for my goals unless I made changes. Walter started me lifting my ski tips and gave me exercises to practice which I do many times each day. Walter also coached me to be quicker with my feet. I wasn't releasing quick enough, my pull back and tipping should be faster and I need to get my balance higher in the arc. Diana also gave me exercises the crucial one being to touch my pole for my pole tap behind my downhill ski. Diana also planted some thoughts or questions in my head. Was I working hard enough to meet my goals? Was I self critical enough of my skiing. I went home and did the exercises and worked far harder than I had before. I skied another 40 days or so but my own opinion was that I wan't much better, I didn't get too far or at least not as much improvement as I wanted. So I had to decide was I just going to suck or was I going to suck it up and figure out a way to use the excellent coaching I had received to my advantage? I enrolled in this year's camp and set out to be better than my coaches would have expected me to be the next time they saw me. That was my goal for this year, I hope to find out next week how successful I've been.
BTW, that's a long introduction and I realize what this topic is and I will get to tip raising, if you bear with me.
I felt that to be quicker that for my summer training I needed to do something that required quick feet and quick balance. I joined a track and field club and the events I trained for were 60, 100 and 200 meter sprints plus javelin throwing. The first night I went to the track the head coach pulled me aside and told me that when my free foot management was wrong.She showed me a picture on her phone of Usian Bolt in full stride and his free foot was dorsiflexed and his ankle was directly below his knee. I was planter flexed and my ankle was behind my knee. With that coaching alone I was able to cut a couple of seconds off my 100 meter time that night. She didn't give a long explanation but she said that in the correct position the muscles were relaxed and quicker and when the free foot strikes the ground I can have immediate balance and immeditely relift that foot. I trained for 5 months and I'm no threat to Bolt but I was much quicker for me. I was also a javelin thrower, and that helped my skiing a lot too but that's another topic.
So winter comes, WB opens, and I ski the first day with my son in boot deep pow. I read my notes from the camp and I started to ski. I get my son to video me and in my opinion my skiing was better than at last years camp. I was raising my tip at the end of the turn and making an effort to do my pole tap behind my downhill ski. I could feel that my arcs where tighter and my release quicker. It felt like I was balanced earlier in the turn. My old problem has always been hip rotation on my right turns. I worked hard and following Diana's advice I critically analyzed every movement I made turning left and right, trying to spot the difference. I've been to many camps and I felt that the problem had to be with my inside foot, my right foot on my right turns. I came up with what I thought was the problem. When I tipped my right foot my movements rotated my foot. So even though I was raising my right tip, rotating the foot screwed things up and I got hip rotation. So I worked on the flats and most turns now I don't do that. I felt that I could feel that my right turns had a better arc. I was getting lots of rebound and lifting the old stance ski wasn't a problem the issue was could I manage my foot so that with that release of pressure my foot was dorsiflexed.
Luckily for me this week, I met Harald on Wednesday on the hill. He is always very gracious and he gave me a few comments and suggestions. I think he was somewhat surprised that I didn't rotate my hips on my right turns. He was very encouraging. Secondly, he commented that my hands were very wide apart, much wider than last year. That I attribute to Diana and to HH's blog. In his December blog he has a picture of Herscher in an extreme CA position. His whole outside arm is straight back, even his fingers point back. I saw that on my phone in a restaurant at WB and immediately went out and did it. Immediately I knew my arcs where much tighter and my release was so much faster to took me some time to adjust but with practice I put them together.
So HH suggested that the tip lift was working for me but suggested that I start it earlier. Last year Walter told me to exaggerate my flexing. HH told me to start my tip lifting as soon as I started to flex. That's different timing for me, I had been waiting until the end of the turn. I tried it on steep terrain, hero snow at Abasin. Wow, the rebound was much stronger, the turns tighter, my release quicker and it feels like I'm balanced high in the arc and getting good angles. This is what HH told me in simple language. Lifting the tip engages the opposite hip immediately. It prevents hip rotation and extension. You can do it stationary at home. Feel the difference between a dorsiflexed lift and a planter flexed lift in your end of turn flexed position. CA is almost automatic. One problem I was having with my super flexing and exaggerated CA was that my stance ski would shoot ahead. I told HH that and he said starting the tip lift early stops that and I can confirm that.
One thing I didn't ask but will next week is should the ankle be directly below the knee when lifting the tip as my track coach wanted. I see in the photos of the WC racers it is but I don't know if that's what our coaching will be. BTW, the WC racers look like they are in the back seat but HH says it doesn't matter because at the start of the new turn they have perfect fore/aft balance. That's how it feels to me, video will tell if that feeling is correct.
I'm looking forward to next weeks camp. I'll post anything else I learn on this topic.
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby DougD » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:17 am

h.harb wrote:Sorry Doug, you mostly get it right but in this case not. Read the updates to the Blog post. We are teaching this to intermediates and advanced skiers and seeing huge changes in body tension at the release and it also engages the hip for an easier transition to counter acting.

Thanks, Harald, for the updates.

In reading your posts (and Max's) on this thread & on your blog, it seems that tip lifting for intermediates is another new development in PMTS. It's exciting to see you continually refining the essentials of world class skiing technique and applying them to teach us normal humans. :P

I'm down with a cold, but just did some basic dryland releasing drills with CA and CB... first with tail lifting, then with tip lifting. Wow!

The improvement in hip muscle engagement from tip lifting is immediately apparent. Much better sense of being balanced on the new stance side hip/femur head... feels like I'm ready to "pounce" into the new hip CA immediately. Can't wait to try it on snow!
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby h.harb » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:27 pm

Excellent you are on the right track!
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby nickia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:14 am

I made some screen captures from The Essentials Fore/Aft DVD. I never noticed the tip lift before during the Phantom demonstration but I could see it now.

Last turn:
Image

Release & Tip lift:
Image

Release & Tip lift 2:
Image

Foot pullback & tipping
Image

Entering the new turn
Image

Image
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Re: New stuff from PMTS, refined stuff from PMTS!

Postby nickia » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:20 am

Here is another example. I will try to emulate this motion today.

1. Last turn
Image

2. Tip lift
Image

3: Strong pullback and ski tail up and ski tip down
Image
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