QUSTION OF THE DAY-ROTARY IN PMTS

[SLAVA]

WHAT ROTARY MOVEMENTS ARE ALLOWED IN PMTS?
IF THERE ANY...

[SLAVA]

free diner and a beer to whoever gets this answer right..at the race camp that will have place in june at mt Hood , Oregon

[Joseph]

If you consider rotary to be a rotational force applied to the body around a central axis, it occurs in PMTS when a skier counterbalances with the upper body. By rotating your upper torso (within the transverse plane) away from the direction of the turn, a rotational force is applied with the central axis being the spinal column. This counterbalancing movement facilitates balance on the stance foot by allowing your skeleton to align in a stuctually strong position over the big toe edge of the stance ski.

If you consider rotary force applied to the femur of either the stance foot leg or free foot leg to be acceptable or desired within PMTS, not only will you suck at PMTS, but you will suck at skiing.

End of rotary discussion please, Slava. There's no need to throw rocks at that particlar beehive. Things have been good on the forum for quite a while now, and I think that I speak for most of us when I say that we'd prefer not to degenerate into nonsense and shenanigans.

Joseph

[John Mason]

A couple more Joseph:

In book one you have the easy two footed release where you flatten the skis and carve only the bottom of the turn. Rotational force is a result of the flattening of the skis as the tips seek the fall line naturally.

However, once again, your not using energy in a rotational plane to get the skis to turn. There is no directed pivoting of the skis going on.

Another one, which may be grey area from a PMTS point of view but I learned it from a Black Level PMTS instructor is pivot slips, the quintessential direct pivoting drill from many people's points of view, but in this case we learned to do it by simply being aware of pressure on either the toes or heel of the foot. In other words while in a side slip balanced primarily on your uphill LTE if you shift your weight fore the tips will dip. Shift your weight aft and your tails will dip. You can generate strong rotational forces by playing with this.

An Epicer described a W drill which is pivot slips on steroids so to speak. This black level PMTS instructor taught us the same drill (he called it in your neighbor's garage) simply by playing with fore aft balance effects on the skis. A third party observer would probably swear we were directly pivoting the skis, but the reality was so so different. Balance is maintained the way we were doing it. Any direct steering of the skis weakens balance. It's a simple difference to feel and this drill is an easy way to tell the difference of the two approaches.

Once again no direct application of rotary torque was being done.

The problem with the term rotary is everyone sees the skis go arcing from turn to turn while the body heads down the hill so people see rotary occuring. The PMTS skier just stands on the stance foot and conducts the show with upper body, lte tipping of the free foot, and flexion.

The key is a PMTS skier is not applying a pivoting torque to the skis to achieve what rotary occurs in any case that I can think of. Wheras in much of ski instruction the idea of direct rotary force/managing rotary/rotary skills and the like seem to me to be a totally different way of skiing that is detrimental. It's a key difference in philosophy and practiacal application. The resulting skier on the hill looks different comming down the hill.

So I took the bite Slava. Oh, my key employee that moved to Texas has decided to move back in May so I may be up for a June race camp. Be fun to meet you.

[SLAVA]

I believe better end this discussion before it gets too far
Joseph, I may suck in skiing but I do not consider rotating of femur of either leg to be acseptoble in PMTS nor in my everyday skiing.

Some times you have see between the lines cuz' skiing is not only about LTE, BTE, CM, and etc. it's also about having FUN.
So I thought I will through a fun question and see how your creativity and imagination will work.
Oh well...my bet..
THERE IS ONE SINGLE RATORAY MOVEMENT IN PMTS IS OK TO DO...
THAT IS ROTATING WHEELS ON YOUR CARVERS!
SUMMER COMING GET READY!

John, dinner on me no matter what
Looking forward to meet you guys
Slava

[John Mason]

no fair - it was a trick question

i like it