Harb Ski Camps for 2017

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Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby h.harb » Sun May 01, 2016 8:33 am

Before we all go to the Harb Ski Systems web page, to sign up for camp, you should know that the camps are not yet posted on the site, so save yourself the trip. We have pre-enrollment for those who have attended a 2015-16 Harb Ski Camp. This policy helps to assure you will not get over your head in a camp that is too advanced. We have experienced this before and we are aware of the complications it presents if a new skier is mixed into a group of experienced PMTS skiers. The first camp should be one in which you can absorb the movements at your pace. This is why we stagger the enrollment. In two weeks the 2017 schedule will be posted and there will be plenty of space in the proper camps for skiers from previous years, and new skiers.

For the 2017 season I am writing up some pre-camp advice for attendees. Many new skiers to Harb Camps may have read the books or seen some videos, but they rarely get the whole picture. This is understandable, we don't expect it, PMTS isn't traditional skiing or instruction. PMTS is much more complete and refined than any other ski teaching system, it's more involved and comprehensive. The details for movements are even well beyond the understanding of regular ski instructors, who are not specifically trained in PMTS methods. As you may already know, national systems don't teach "movements" or balancing on skis, they think they do and they say they do; however not at the level of understanding that PMTS has developed.

I am setting up links with specific information about each type of camp, so skiers can prepare for Harb Camp. We will put them on our Harbski web site and on my Blog, so that when you sign up for a camp you can link to them, read and prepare yourself better. Preparation means some physical activities as well as some skiing technical changes you can make if you are skiing before you come to camp.

An example: If your pole plant swings to the tip of your ski at the end of your turns, and triggers an up leg extension, we always take your pole plant away during camp. Video example: Go to the "Social Chatting" forum here, and look at the videos there, notice the pole swings. They cause exactly what I describing.

My question is for those who have come to camp, what would you have done, and would have liked to know about PMTS and Harb Camps before you came to camp??? What did you find out at camp that would have been helpful to you, and that you could have used to prepare?

In our efforts to constantly get better at what we do, this feature we think will enhance your camp experience. PMTS never stops evolving, every year we refine and add new approaches new exercises. Every year our coaches get better through teaching experience, feedback and training we provide. We want the slickest teaching system in the world to continue to outdistance all other systems, that is what drives Harb Ski Systems.
We are driven by your goals for skiing, and to fulfill your motivation for refinement, detail, fun and confidence with your skiing. Thanks, Harald
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Re: Harb Camps for 2017 are already filling.

Postby h.harb » Sun May 01, 2016 8:53 am

On the topic of evolving exercises, techniques and movements, I have developed a new exercise, this season. It's not unlike the "two footed release" that focuses on no swing, CA and pole tap timing. These movements for timing and proper CA with release timing, are incorporated. It is an advanced exercise, I have used it 3 times in privates and camps. I showed it to Reilly McGlashan, he was so intrigued; he went home and practiced it because he felt he didn't have his timing correct, this exercise made him aware of this. I think this exercise and the steps to build up to it, add another dimension to development of the short turn, timing for all of skiing, but especially for bumps, powder and steeps.

Becoming a creditable, refined skier is a journey most skiers will never experience, because the methods available are just not known. What a lucky community we have evolved into with PMTS. Besides the new series of free videos we have produced on You Tube this year, we have developed new lessons that are down-loadable from our Harbski web site. For $10 you can get a complete lesson to practice a know movement ability that will enhance your skiing. If you use these lessons and then come to camp to refine them and get feedback from the best professionals in skiing, your journey to refined skiing is assured.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby skimore » Mon May 02, 2016 10:06 pm

My question is for those who have come to camp, what would you have done, and would have liked to know about PMTS and Harb Camps before you came to camp??? What did you find out at camp that would have been helpful to you, and that you could have used to prepare?


When I came to my first camp I had read the Expert Skier 2 and Essentials books and had one private PMTS lesson. I was an experienced skier who skied at least 40 days a year. So I considered myself a pretty good skier, though of course I knew I wanted to improve or I wouldn’t have been interested in PMTS.

Before coming to camp I told myself to check my ego at the door and be open to learn as much as possible. That was successful and I continue to remind myself of that whenever I take a camp. There’s always more to learn.

I remember being overwhelmed with the amount of information I received at that first camp. It was almost too much to take in. And afterwards I wasn’t sure I remembered enough. When I came to my second camp I realized that I needed to focus better. And what I did was to make it a practice, no matter how tired I was at the end of the day, to sit down and write notes about what was covered in that day’s class, what drills we did, what was said to me and what I needed to concentrate on in the future. Those notes are very helpful, especially at the beginning of each new ski season. I would suggest that to anyone.

My first camp was Super Blue (just like my first book was ACBAES2 - ha ha - no Book 1 Page 1 for me! ). The next year I decided to take a Blue/Dark Blue camp to make sure that I really understood the essentials. That was very helpful. I would suggest giving careful thought to where you are not just in your skiing experience, but also in your understanding of PMTS when you decide which class to sign up for.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby skijim13 » Tue May 03, 2016 8:25 am

I agree I think about skiing year round and keep current on my skills by training on the tipping board and reading up on material. I also think that everyone who wants to improve on their skiing should remember that skiing is a sport. Anyone who wants to improve in the sport of skiing needs to be in good physical shape year round. Both my wife and I workout every day to stay in shape by going to the gym or doing outdoor sports. Take the advice given in the Expert II book about balance training, the more you improve it the better your skiing will get.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby dan.boisvert » Tue May 03, 2016 3:02 pm

I can't wait to see the new exercise at bumps camp next year. :D

I think there were three things I noticed my first camp that could've been useful to know beforehand (and you may have covered these somewhere, and I just missed them somehow).

1) How warm should I dress? For me, the pace at camp is about 10 degrees colder than my usual ski pace so, if it's 20F outside, I should dress for 10F to be comfortable.
2) How should I pace myself? For me, it worked well to ski hard at the ski-off (to get in the most fun group I could), then go at all-day cruising speed/effort otherwise, taking opportunities where presented for a hot lap. That let me have fun and satisfy my need for speed in bursts, but also retain enough energy to learn all day.
3) It seemed a bunch of people had never skied without poles until the first time they were taken away at camp. It seems like trying that out in advance to get over the initial learning curve would be worthwhile, rather than fighting with that while also trying to perform specific tasks at camp.

The continual evolution of PMTS amazes me. Thank you!
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby CO_Steve » Tue May 03, 2016 6:26 pm

First camp experience. Did I do anything right?
First, I read the descriptions and wanted Super Blue. Lucky for me it was full and I had to take Blue/Dark Blue.
I never read any of the books, or watched any video.
I brought a pair of all mountain skis. They stayed home after the first day and some older SL skis got me through the week.
Ski off. They put me in the top group. Average of the rest of my group was something like 4-5 camps.
Check ego. Prepare for fire house of information. Take notes every day. If you're doing blue/dark blue don't free ski in the afternoon unless you're in good ski shape.
If you do ski use the time to practice drills, don't go ripping around even if conditions are great. Your body will thank you Friday.
Dan, great idea practicing without poles. Can you practice standing without poles? The longest run I ever took was one lap of Black Mountain with Harald, without poles. We talked a lot.
Standing without poles is terrible. It was over an hour.
Practice skiing on all four edges. It part of alignment but if you struggle to even try to do it there's less value in the exercise.
It'll be worth it.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby ToddW » Tue May 03, 2016 10:10 pm

Don't wear black if you have another option. MA video shows more contrast and 3-D info if you're wearing lighter or brighter colors.

Drive carefully on the road to A-Basin, especially with rental car tires. Once a guy in my group drove over the edge and down the steep pitch. He didn't get to ski the rest of the week.

Stay hydrated. A-Basin has complimentary huge glasses of water for a reason.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby h.harb » Wed May 04, 2016 7:31 am

Don't use all 4 edges at once??
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby dtrick924 » Wed May 04, 2016 4:19 pm

I've attended 3 camps: Green/Blue, Blue/Dark Blue and Short Turn.
1. Coming from the East I had a very hard time with the altitude the first time at A-Basin. Spending a couple of nights in Denver before camp really helped me acclimatize.
2. Wear a hydration pack so you can drink water while skiing and bring a snack for an energy boost.
3. You will be doing the same drills regardless of which camp you attend. The biggest difference will be the steepness of the terrain and how crowded the slopes are. Granby has much gentler slopes and far fewer skiers. I was really glad I listened to the forum's advice and chose green/blue for my first camp.
4. Don't forget your poles at the top of the hill when it's time to go in for lunch. I think the lift line was where I missed my poles the most. It was a long shuffle without them.

ETA: Two threads on which camp to choose. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2709&p=27695&hilit=Solvista#p27695 and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3166&p=32571&hilit=Solvista#p32571
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby skijim13 » Fri May 06, 2016 11:41 am

Best thing for high A basin for the high altitude is to get Diomax
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby Ken » Fri May 06, 2016 2:59 pm

I am setting up links with specific information about each type of camp, so skiers can prepare for Harb Camp.

Great idea, and perhaps also more guidance about which camp is best suited to which type of skier. When I recommend a camp to a friend, I'm part using experience and part guessing about which camp will be best for them. Also, some of the camps have changed since I last attended.

Also, perhaps some guidance on the first day about what the evaluators are looking for in the ski-off. Friends didn't ski the way the coaches were evaluating and got put into a group that was lower level than they could have used.

Coming from the East I had a very hard time with the altitude the first time at A-Basin. Spending a couple of nights in Denver before camp really helped me acclimatize

Always a good idea, but this is very personal. The elevation at home here doubles from high tide to low tide (12' to 24'), and I don't have a problem (other than general lack of fitness) at 12,000'. Others are knocked flat or made sick. If one doesn't know, err on the side of caution. The extra night or two in Summit County (9,000') before camp can be good. Driving to the top of Loveland Pass (above A-Basin) then hiking up that trail is good for an early day, and pretty spectacular on a sunny day.

Wear everything warm you own. Bootglove neoprene boot covers are good. Extra warm balaclava or helmet liner can be important.
I learned about rental cars with high mileage, hardened rubber, and shallow tread. Reject a rental with many miles or half-worn tires. There's something better on the lot.
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Feather duster tomorrow

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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby h.harb » Sat May 07, 2016 10:53 am

Also, perhaps some guidance on the first day about what the evaluators are looking for in the ski-off. Friends didn't ski the way the coaches were evaluating and got put into a group that was lower level than they could have used.


Let me explain this, as this isn't how PMTS works. The ski off has nothing to do with " what the coaches are evaluating"" or speed; and "there are no lower levels". "There are only levels of movement ability." PMTS is very specific about the movements needed in expert skiing. These movements are clearly defined, easy to evaluate and see, either you can do them or you can't.

We completely and surgically notice the movements the skier demonstrates. The movements we teach are clearly written in 4 books and many videos, there is no mystery as to what PMTS movements are. So make as many "Essentials of Skiing" movements as you have in your skiing "Repertoire". The coaches will see every movement, and arrange the best movement learning, to fit the skiers movement needs.

If I told all the skiers before the group split that they should be making a "Super Phantom" and they didn't achieve one: should they be put in a group that can perform a Super Phantom?

Our selection process is not arbitrary, it's based on PMTS teaching and movements, it evaluates movements, not what the skier looks like. We watch people's movements, their ability to make the primary movements. It's not about speed of descending either. In fact, that will put you in a group that needs the movements that control speed. When obvious movements that control speed are not in the skiing, the skier is put in a group that teaches these missing movements.

Skiers who ski fast, often don't know what a competent ski turn encompasses. If you have 3 of 5 essential movements in your skiing, you are assigned to the group that has equal or similar movements. Being in the wrong group or a perception of being in a wrong group, is just that, the perception of the skier's own ability. And we know how good self evaluation is for understanding your own skiing, it's worthless.

If you don't want the best coaches in the world of skiing to evaluate your movements; you may be coming to the wrong camp.

After a day or two of PMTS instruction, every camper realizes they have missing movements and they needed to slow down and learn the fundamentals they didn't have. Learning skiing is about slowing down and performing and practicing movements you don't have. This is sometimes ego busting, however, anyone who has experienced this comes out skiing better by the end of camp and realizes their deficiencies were never going to be corrected without the PMTS approach. If you want to ski the way you ski at the beginning of camp, you maybe in the wrong camp, not the wrong group!!!!!!.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby skijim13 » Mon May 09, 2016 4:44 am

Being at two camps before and signed up for my third. Haralds message on what they look is a very accurate way things work in camp. My first message is this is unlike any training you have had before, since many people who come to camp had only taken lessons from the PSIA. PMTS coaches have the ability to determine the single key movements that you need to work on to make the most improvement in your skiing. If you want to improve in your skiing you need to hear the truth it may hurt your ego but after you make the changes in your skiing you will be very pleased with the outcome.
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Re: Harb Ski Camps for 2017

Postby skijim13 » Wed May 11, 2016 4:09 am

Anyone who is attending camp for the first time should watch this talk. Last year there were skiers at the camp that did know much about PMTS a basic knowledge makes learning much faster.

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