Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

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Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby oggy » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:09 pm

Hi all,

I've spent most of the past 2-3 seasons skiing brushed turns and a lot of off-piste terrain. This year I started playing with edge-locked carving a bit more again. But in the meantime I've grown a bit unaccustomed to the speed and have developed a tendency to try and brush some of the speed off at the top of the turn (so yes, in other words, seems like I've lost my b***s). I can still produce edge-locked turns (actually probably better ones than before), but on steeper terrain I have to consciously focus to stop myself from brushing. So I can produce both types of turns, but I have no idea what it exactly is that I do differently to get one or the other. It's a slightly weird feeling and I figure some understanding of what is going on could help me improve.

So, my question is: what is the exact difference in movements (timing, intensity) that produces an edge-locked vs. a brushed carve? And I'm talking about the top part of the turn specifically. I haven't been able to find anything in Harald's books that discusses this precise point (specifically, nothing in the section on carving from book 2 seems to describe this).
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Re: Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby Max_501 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:59 pm

See this thread:

Carving Madness
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Re: Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby oggy » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:01 pm

Thanks, Max! I've read through it and it's quite informative. However there are two things that I couldn't reconcile there.

SkierSynergy writes:
...One can also flex the stance leg a bit and while continuing to tip the free foot ski. This will also flatten the stance ski a bit. By the way this is why you don't want to be flexing both legs during the engagement phase: it actually decreases bite in the stance ski.


But then Harald writes:

In real situations, in the high C part of an arc, if you slow down angle creation and begin to extend the outside leg before the ski is locked, you will begin a brushing action. By extending the outside leg I mean only slightly stronger then maintaining contact.


What am I missing?
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Re: Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby geoffda » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:17 pm

A brushed turn is just a carved turn with a slight sideways drifting component. There are a number of ways to get the drift started. Differential tipping is one (discussed in ACBAES2), adding a little extra extension at the top of the turn is another. To get your skis to lock in, engagement needs to be more simultaneous and you need to carry tension in your ankles to support the skis being on edge. Practice on fairly flat terrain and focus on making very precise tipping movements. Engagement must be quick and positive; you can't be slow and give the skis the opportunity to break away. Your shins have to stay parallel during the tipping process. You still lead with LTE tipping, but the BTE has to follow right away. Otherwise you will get a brush. Don't try to overthink this. The movements are the same, but there are subtleties that you have to develop a feel for. If you can't make it work now, just keep skiing. You'll eventually get there.
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Re: Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby DougD » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:16 am

Oggy,

Your re-posts from Jay and Harald are consistent with PMTS teaching and with each other. There's no contradiction, so you may need to re-boot your understanding. Maybe this will help...

To initiate and maintain an edgelocked/brush-free carve in the High C, precise control of edge pressures is required. Basic PMTS flexing/extending movements produce that ideal amount of pressure. Any deviation from that ideal - IN EITHER DIRECTION - can cause the edges to release and begin brushing. Jay offered the deviation toward less or late pressuring. Harald offered the deviation toward more or early pressuring.

P.S. Jay stated "a bit" and Harald said "only slightly". Very small departures from the ideal of relaxed extension to maintain ski/snow contact can relax an edgehold and cause brushing. This is an example of why we need to develop fine, "analog" control of our movements.

P.P.S. Which tactic should you use? Both! Either will work, but one may work better than the other in a particular situation for a host of reasons.

P.P.P.S. Corrections from Geoffda or Max welcomed if I got this wrong
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Re: Edge-locked vs. brushed carve

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:11 pm

geoffda wrote: Don't try to overthink this.


+1

The phrase "Just do it" comes to mind!
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