Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

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Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby skijim13 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:07 am

I have been watching the bump videos posted by Dianna from the learn to ski series. I noticed that she always starts her turns on the front face of the uphill side of the bump. At my mountain in the Northeast the bumps are planted for zipper line skiing and they become long in front face making it difficult to make a turn around the front, so many times I start my turn more towards the sides of the bumps and exit the back of the bumps. What is the recommended side of the bump to ski using PMTS. We don't get great bumps here in the Northeast and everyone usually skis the zipper line very fast. When I make slow turns in them many times I almost get hit from the people above flying through
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby ToddW » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:13 am

Jim,

Read the first (long) post in this 2010 thread. http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2817

In the last third, there are two sections entitled moguls. One in the what we did section and one in the homework for the rest of the season section. Diana prescribes practice for four different bump lines in these two mogul sections.

Bumps are an amusement park ride and meant to be ridden however you wish.

Also, search for a thread in 2006-2007 (?) where Max_501 describes privates with Harald where taking PMTS into the bumps clicked for him.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby skijim13 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:38 am

Thanks Todd for the information
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby B.Mulligan » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:00 am

I was also recently watching some of HH youtube videos on bumps. And then I thought about that link to the Andreas Spettel video on short turns and bumps that someone posted in social chatting or Ma. Anyway, what I noticed was that Spettel uses a completely opposite pattern on groomers than PMTS extending to transition and flexing both legs through the turn to pop and transition again. It looked a lot like the Canadian instructor stuff I watched.

But, when he got to moguls, he looked a lot like HH and those young Australian rippers. And, I think because in order to ski bumps well you have to use the PMTS pattern, or at least the shape of bumps themselves forces you too. In bumps, he flexed deeply to transition from one turn to the next, changed edges and tipped into new direction, usually as he was moving up some part of the mogul, side or top, and then extended into the turn of trough. Unless you are World cup zipperlining, if you extend at the transition of a turn in bumps you'll launch into the air as your extending up a ramp.

I only point this out, because even among skilled known coaches with an internet presence, HH is the only one consistently teaching the same techniques on groomers that you take into bumps of steeps.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby Max_501 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:29 am

Long story short, many skiers try to ski challenging bumps before they have built a rock solid PMTS bpst. If you have that the line is largely irrelevant.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby jbotti » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:25 am

Max_501 wrote:Long story short, many skiers try to ski challenging bumps before they have built a rock solid PMTS bpst. If you have that the line is largely irrelevant.


If you don't have a rock solid BPSRT attempting to ski bumps is a great way to reinforce default movements that most everyone has worked (is working) so hard to get rid of.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby speedcontrol » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:33 pm

To ski the big and icy (frightful) eastern moguls I use absorption and extension to fly down zipper line (and to control speed) It is a different technique and requires a very good physical shape, but it is the fastest way to go down a mogul run (if this is what you are after).
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby Max_501 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:04 pm

All real bumps require absorption and extension which is covered in the bump videos.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby skijim13 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:50 am

Thanks everyone for the advise. I usually ski the bumps slow, and make round turns using the superphantom move, and use the progressions in the videos. I don't do the zipper line at high speed, I do not want my old movements to come back into my skiing I have been working so hard to remove. Many times Lorie, and I will split from our group of friends when they ski too fast so we don't let bad movements come back into our skiing. When we were at BC last month we worked hard not to allow us to lose any PMTS skills we worked so hard at camp to develop.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby krazzy legs » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:22 pm

speedcontrol wrote:To ski the big and icy (frightful) eastern moguls I use absorption and extension to fly down zipper line (and to control speed) It is a different technique and requires a very good physical shape, but it is the fastest way to go down a mogul run (if this is what you are after).


Zipper line skiing I find works best with PMTS movements tipping counter balance, counter acting, flexing to release, pulling the feet back no other technique is better then using PMTS. From experience I know it is true.
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Re: Skiing Bumps Using PMTS

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:44 pm

Great post from Jay on skiing bumps:

SkierSynergy wrote:I can toss out a few comments on bumps.

First, if you want to ski the trough zipper-line, using the movements that you see competition bump skiers use, that is not PMTS technique. The movements are different and the recommended line would be different. In fact, competition bumps are artificially created for the line and technique that you see competition skiers using. With that said, here are a few comments on PMTS technique for bumps. At Mt. Hood and in S. America, I sometimes jump into the artificial bumps that are used for training and enjoy them, but it is clear that I am skiing them differently. I choose to ski them as I would real mountain bumps as encountered in all mountain skiing.

To make the connection to general skiing, let?s first think about two basic topics: rhythm of flexing/extending and tipping actions. There are more specific variations and tactical issues that can be addressed later.

In any basic turn, the release is the time when both legs are maximally flexed together and everything in the upper body is square. As the skis are put on edge, the inside foot is tipped to the LTE, the inside leg stays flexed (or increases flexion), and the stance leg extends and is stood on for balance. As tipping happens, the upper body counters in reaction to tip and face away from the direction of the turn. Let?s ignore pole plant issues for now.

For bumps this same pattern is used. In fact the bump facilitates all of these movements. The bump is your best friend. Head straight to the top of the bump. Flex both legs to absorb the bump and flatten the skis right on top of it. At this point, continue to flex new inside leg, lightening that ski. Tip the new inside ski to its LTE and carve that LTE high and hard down the other side of the bump. As this happens, the stance leg will easily extend a little further toward the trough. It extends and the skier stands on it for balance. The line then is an arced line down the side of the bump. Head to the next bump and do the same. Flex to flatten on top and tip high and hard down the other side.

The line is variable, but it tends to be carving along the far side of each bump with occasional high C transitions between the bumps when there is enough room. I can say more about variations and tactics later.

One thing that is nice with this approach is that the action of flexing to flatten (release the old turn) is the same as that which is used to absorb the bump. As the bump comes, you only have to think about flexing both legs to the top of the bump.

I usually start people going from bump to bump. Do a single lift and tip down a bump to a stop on the top of the next one in a flexed position. Then try linking two, then three, and so on.

A few extra comments.

We do not use the counter to do an unwinding pivot slip type of turn. Turning down the hill with your upper body at the beginning of the new turn does the same destructive things to your skiing in the bumps as it does in any other slopes/conditions.

In general, whether one hard carves with big angles or gently drifts down the bumps is not of big concern for me. There are effective ways to do both ? as long as the movement patterns are consistent with balance and carving. I can say more about this later if someone wants.

Hope this helps.
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