Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about PMTS.

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Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about PMTS.

Postby h.harb » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:04 pm

Here is another post from a skier who learned from our PMTS Direct Parallel System. The excuse given by the instructor on the ski lift, is a common response we hear from skiers. However, someone who is using PMTS and is skiing the PMTS Direct Parallel System can notice how different the systems are!

Dear Mr. Harb: To start with WOW! For a little background, I am 52 year old male who just got back from a week of skiing in Crested Butte CO (30 years since my last ski trip). I used to go with regularity when I was a child and teenager. Of course, I was taught using the "traditional" method. I only had to read your first book and watch your You Tube videos and all of the old teaching went away to be replaced by technique that really works. I was riding the lift with a ski instructor and inquired if he knew of your method. He replied yes and "that we essentially teach the same principles as Harb does". As the words were coming out of his mouth I looked down at a group of students who were all descending down the mountain single file behind another instructor using the "wedge" formation LOL. In spite of rented equipment (which included "shaped" skis)I only fell once on my first trip in 30 years down the mountain (of course I was unwittingly due to muscle memory utilizing the old method on that 1st trip down). Once I focused on your instruction the results were amazing. It has made me wonder what would happen with the proper equipment and a "live" lesson. Living in Oklahoma is a problem and time constraints. I will research you options and go from there. Thank you for putting out a legitimate product when others apparently are not. Sincerely, Vince
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby Vailsteve » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:19 pm

The vast majority of PSIA instructors don't know and literally "cannot" teach PMTS at PSIA dominated resorts . PSIA is a terrible organization, yet is has an unbelievable lock on key reports like Vail. Everything at VR is "by the book", the book being written by corporate lawyers and organizations like PSIA.

In fairness, There is a somewhat valid reason...consistency from one class to another and one resort to another. The average paying skier is NOT like HH or most of the PMTS skiers here--passionate enough and DEDICATESD enough to pay the price in drills, practice, drills, money, drills...you get the point. For most, Skiing at a resort is first and foremost a vacation, it is a time to have fun with friends and family. It is not a Marine boot camp.

There is no doubt PMTS absolultley makes better skiers, and most of us came to PMtS after being disappointed in traditional teaching techniques. HH is right that PSIA has never learned to take advantage of the shaped ski and they push old old techniques...stem Christy's anyone?

But, Some instructors at large resorts HAVE spent the time and money to attend PMTS camps and ski with the Summit Gang to refine their own skiing, and some are even PMTS instructors. They DO emulate and teach PMTS techniques in their classes (mostly in private lessons).

Bottomline, PSIA versus PMTS is a battle that cannot be "won", per se. You "win" by skiing such a expert way that other skies and instructors say "WOW, where idid you learn to ski like that! And now you can talk....

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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby DougD » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:57 am

In fairness, There is a somewhat valid reason...consistency from one class to another and one resort to another. 

Steve, what consistency do you see? Except at the lowest levels (teaching beginners the wedge or Stem Christie), I've experienced little consistency between PSIA lessons, instructors or resorts. It's as if each instructor was teaching a different sport. As HH has demonstrated in recent blog posts, even Demo Teamers don't ski consistently... not even in a venue designed to showcase national teaching techniques (Interski). There may be valid, or at least understandable, reasons for the PSIA lock on major resort teaching programs - but I wouldn't include consistency among them.

Bottomline, PSIA versus PMTS is a battle that cannot be "won", per se. You "win" by skiing such a expert way that other skies and instructors say "WOW, where idid you learn to ski like that! And now you can talk....

Fully agree. The two schools have different goals. They speak different languages. Emotional disagreements aside, there seems to be no basis for conversation, still less a rational debate.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:10 pm

There is no battle between PSIA and PMTS. But to say there is consistency between PSIA ski schools or even instructors is not accurate. This is what PSIA would like you to believe. The reality is one instructor is more mixed up about PSIA technique, then the next one. PMTS has consistency if you are looking for that.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby arothafel » Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:22 pm

As far as I can see, the only consistency is the $10 PSIA pin!
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby Vailsteve » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:46 pm

Ok I should have said "attempted" consistancy. But most PSIA instructors DO teach the wedge progression. They DO teach outside, big toe dominate skiing. They DO teach rotary/steering of the legs. They DO teach up movements. They DO teach crappy, outdated skiing.

So guys, the PSIA theory IS consistent. The individual practice may or may not be. And any attempt to explain the other side gets hammered.

Disappointing.

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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby ToddW » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:30 pm

VailSteve,

A decade ago when I got back into skiing after a 20 year hiatus, I took many traditional ski school lessons. In the majority of those lessons, the instructor confided that his colleague had taught me wrong the day before and spent over half of the lesson unteaching me what I had just paid to learn. This was at more than one ski school. I don't think this is the sort of consistency you were thinking of.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby h.harb » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:27 pm

Todd-++
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby skijim13 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:04 am

A good reason to take a PMTS lesson vs. a PSIA lesson is the quality of the skiing and control that PMTS gives skier. Anyone with eyes would like to make the turns that a good PMTS skier makes. When the top level skiers of the PSIA still stem their skis the system has flaws in it. Many of these top level PSIA skiers are great athlete’s that have put many years of work into their skiing by to stay true to their system effects the quality of their skiing. Additionally the fact that the PSIA does not put much time into to the value of good alignment helps with a persons skiing makes things even worst.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby hyper_squirrel7 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:00 am

ToddW wrote:VailSteve,

A decade ago when I got back into skiing after a 20 year hiatus, I took many traditional ski school lessons. In the majority of those lessons, the instructor confided that his colleague had taught me wrong the day before and spent over half of the lesson unteaching me what I had just paid to learn. This was at more than one ski school. I don't think this is the sort of consistency you were thinking of.


Yes, I remember that the ski trainers at my mountain all contradicted each other, and I wasn't the only one to notice.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby Basil j » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:22 am

The new Ski magazine issue is out and it covers the PSIA approach to carving shape skis. Feet slightly wider than shoulder width, weight distribution 60/40,tip your skis, go for the railroad tracks, etc. etc,.I stopped buying this magazine years ago, and I swear all they do is rehash the same crap over & over again. They interview over 20 different high level PSIA instructors and they are all over the board when it comes to tips and technique.
I like the simpler approach that HH has laid out for us.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:25 pm

Basil j wrote:The new Ski magazine issue is out and it covers the PSIA approach to carving shape skis. Feet slightly wider than shoulder width, weight distribution 60/40,tip your skis, go for the railroad tracks, etc. etc,.


Seriously? If it were 2001 I'd say sure, that's what they are preaching... but in 2016? Really? I guess back in 2001 they were teaching 50/50 weight distribution, so I guess in 15 years PSIA has increased stance ski pressure by 20%. I guess that's progress.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby blackthorn » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:47 pm

The article in SKI magazine is called "to bend a ski". There is an initial pictorial of a hip dump turn, followed on the next page by something better. Amongst wrong advice there are at least suggestions about tipping, disadvantages of wide skis, avoiding twisting, focussing on the inside ski, terrain, garlands etcetc. The problem is that it is just a mess. I regard it as "trending ???? " in the right direction. Hopefully those with interest in improvement will discover PMTS as the best way forward.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby skijim13 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:38 am

Sad that this article is written by the head of the demo team. I was on the trip last year and the people from my ski club still believe in the wide stance, my favorite comment a seasoned skier made was these new shaped skis need a wide stance to use them correctly. I had to bite my tongue to not comment and when two full time ski instructors on the bus agreed.
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Re: Instructor, what to tell your client if they ask about P

Postby B.Mulligan » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:49 am

Ski Mag actually made that article on carving the cover page. It was probably the worst ski mag lesson piece I have ever read. It was chaotic, no mechanical discussions whatsoever, no meaningful drills. Just awful.
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