Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby GThomas » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:19 pm

1) How does improving STATIC balance and STATIC fore/aft alignment translate to the DYNAMIC requirements of skiing?

2) Did you improve static balance in a deep flex or standing tall?

3) Did you improve static balance with the boots in or out of the skis?

4) Did you improve static balance on a flat surface or on a slope?

Hi Max

1) It may or may not improve dynamic balance but for me it is a good start.
For example if I am unable (as last year) to even transfer weight onto the ball of my foot even when trying hard to do so (one example only) this does not aid in my athletic abilities within the dynamic environment.
2) Improved from fully flexed to a stood tall position with weight maintained through the center of my foot lower leg held within the cuff of the boot
3)Balance was improved in and out of skis each leg in turn. Note this showed up the other day several postural muscle imbalances between the right and left side. I was able to stand on the right leg far easier than the left which introduced inefficient and compensatory movements already vastly improved.
I also stand in the boots on a balance cushion one leg at a time.
4) Flat surface skis on I don't have the facilities for a slope in the skis I have a wobble board which provides a slope when used off center wearing the boots only.

Is this dynamic movement no, is it skiing no, is it the best I can do right now yes.
Last year due to an inadequately fitted insole (my fault) combined with too strong a posting removing foot function (poor decision on my part) etc I was held onto my heels or supported primarily under the arch, I was unable to get weight balanced over the foot. or to transfer weight along the foot. There were many other faults in the boot system. and this year I know in terms of the boot set up, I will go onto the hill with a set up which as a start will allow me to balance and move way beyond any previous set up so I am excited by that. The cherry on the cake will be increased comfort also.
Will the set up be optimised well all things are possible but most likely not as this does require on snow experiences/results. Some of that I may be able to tweak some not.
What I hope to get from this season is a greater ease of movement, improved balance which allows greater enjoyment and confidence, and continued learning/progress.

Hi Gaku
I suspect we are on the same page with some of how we work, but with a tweak for me in this instance.
I previously learn't of how to ski, mostly for me this was I looked at the skis as a tool saw how they work and treated them as a tool to utilise the function of. This year first time ever I have the opportunity to spend a long time on snow and looked into all aspects of the sport for myself, applied my research and then my own mind. In my profession there is an expression "only use that which filters through your own God given reason" I found PMTS and like many who are enthusiastic I looked and it all make sense. I can see the difference between what I learn't to do as against what HH teaches, and see the benefits and logic of Haralds approach. However for me to do it right I will likely try what happens when you alter aspects like don't pull the foot back. When I experience what then happens that does not work it 10 fold has me doing the correct thing and avoiding the wrong movement than if I pull my foot back because someone told me this is the way to do it.
I am sure you know exactly what I mean :-)
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby HeluvaSkier » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:36 pm

Holy crap you people complicate a relatively simple concept. :?
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby Max_501 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:32 pm

A quote from HH that might help -

Harald wrote:There are no hidden meanings, no unspecified movements, secret handshakes, just the essentials. Maybe that's what's confusing you, its too simple, to structured and to application oriented. Maybe it needs more BS. Sorry, I meant just not complicated enough for some to understand.
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby blackthorn » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:46 pm

I joined this forum a couple of years ago. It is very apparent that conceptual debates don't get very far. ( cf E### ) I have thought about this a great deal as an aging recreational skier trying to improve. My realisation has been "just do it" then once this has been achieved then possibly debate it, but in practise nobody does. Why? - because PMTS works, and any nuances that take you further will be well understood by you at that point so there will be no need. So far this has not let me down. This can be bit frustrating for those who, like me, like to debate/discuss as a learning path. I've realised this and given that my goal is to ski better, I accept it. This both a strength and a weakness of the forum.
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby GThomas » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:44 am

Interesting this, so for some clarifying thoughts I. Case any of the recent comments are including what I hoped was a happy sharing of thoughts
I thought I was contributing to a thread about for/aft balance
This included changes I was making to ski boots which frankly had nothing directly to do with PMTS movements, but everything to do with aiding to find the best set up to release my athletic capabilities. I can make this as simple or complicated as you like
I further was getting into not PMTS specifically but a out learning and what works for me, two examples first I learnt to sea kayak, in the process of this I fell in a lot and frustrated the instructor so I was.back of the pack. However I wanted to know exactly where the limit of edging not skis but a kayak were, I will say I moved way ahead of all others I a short time.
Second was flying radio control aeroplanes and moving controls so that some functions were now opposite to what I learnt with, try that and not crash ! So no I don't think the PMTS movements are complicated seem pretty simple to me.
What I showed above is how I personally learn fastest new physicL activity, as well as an ability to reprogramme my brain for new not old movements as with the flying
For some learning is fun, they are curious how things work, or have hit a plateau, and need a new way to see things or learn and move forwards. For some people saying the same thing but using different words suddenly the penny drops this has nothing to do with PMTS or making a simple movement complicated but has everything to do with the working of the mind, especially for those who finds trouble with u wiring what is hard wired
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby ToddW » Thu Nov 05, 2015 3:00 am

GThomas,

You might be very surprised how fast you would learn a new physical activity at a relatively high level if you would put total faith in Harald's prescription. This forum and the camps are full of highly analytical, successful professionals. Most of them have figured out that the quickest route to skiing enlightenment is to just do it. Then one day they discover they grok deeply some of the puzzles of skiing. The next season their understanding expands again. See some of groffda's posts about automatically knowing how to ski upside down in balance on steepish ice at one point in his progression.

One difference from the radio airplane is your body's naive attempts at self-preservation when things get tight or scary on skis. That's when you find all the pollution and filth you allowed into your muscle memory and how superficial the clean up job was.

One of the biggest proponents of just do it on this forum has a phd in theoretical physics. His brain is geared to constantly ask "why" but he's learned that the answers come fastest by just doing exactly what Harald and his coaches say.
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Re: Moving Fore/aft Balance

Postby GThomas » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:55 am

Well i've studied quantum physics in USA and on the wall there was "JUST DO IT" so I get that. If we get into the quatum field then the simple way to ski like Harald is to down load his abilities straight from the quantum field, simplest way.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby Max_501 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:21 am

From the first post of the first topic in this forum:

Max_501 wrote:Learning PMTS can be very simple if you follow the progression HH has given us. Book 1, Book 2, then Essentials. No need to over analyze or question the steps that HH has laid out in the books and on this forum because they simply work. Nike has a slogon "Just Do It" and that applies here. Just Do It [PMTS] and you will be on the road to expert skiing.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby jbotti » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:28 am

Wow, reminds me of when my daughter was 2. Step away for a short while and anything can and will happen! The story about the horse and water comes to mind.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby blackthorn » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:44 am

I was not aware of the word "grok" - I thought it was a typo. However a bit of googling makes me think that it was indeed very appropriate.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby h.harb » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:42 pm

I read this and I'm glad I wasn't around when it went up. As the guy said a long time ago, HH Quote: "I guess I am not making this complicated enough for you to understand?" Isn't it amazing how hard it is for humans to let go of their baggage. They want to be too smart for their own good. The "people" that learn to ski the fastest use PMTS. The "skiers" that learn to ski the fastest never took a lesson and were introduced to PMTS as their only learning method. And they didn't drag their golf lessons or their degree in literature with them. The people who take the longest to learn to ski are PSIA full cert instructors.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby DougD » Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:05 am

h.harb wrote:The "people" that learn to ski the fastest use PMTS. The "skiers" that learn to ski the fastest never took a lesson and were introduced to PMTS as their only learning method. And they didn't drag their golf lessons or their degree in literature with them.

Ain't it the truth.

Before meeting me, my partner had only skied once, some 20 years earlier. When we went skiing I observed that he couldn't even navigate the bunny slope. He'd entirely forgotten whatever he'd learned from that one old experience.

"Aha!", I thought, "he's a perfect candidate for PMTS. No old movements to unlearn, no pretense of knowing anything about skiing, no axe to grind in favor of any system."

We started with ACBAES1 and skied a few days, always on the easiest slopes, doing PMTS drills as best as I could manage. He's no athlete but I refused to let him take lessons until he enrolled in last season's Green/Blue camp.

After one week with Diana and Rich, he went from a near never-ever to a confident, reasonably PMTS-correct skier on groomed blues... and eager for more. If he'd been an experienced stem Christie skier, it would have taken him far longer to unlearn all that crap. I doubt he'd have continued in the sport at all.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby Ken » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:00 pm

DougD makes important points. It takes several hundred repetitions to "learn" a new movement. Learning means that new neural connections are made in the brain. This means that the brain actions for these new movements are fast, take little energy, and leaves other parts of the brain to think of other things. Before these movements are learned they must be thought about, which is slow, tiring, and we can only think of one thing at a time.

It can take several thousand repetitions to replace a habitual movement. That is why it can be a long learning slog for many of us with deeply embedded old movement patterns to replace. Then you have the True Believers like the PSIA...they see no reason to learn anything new.
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Re: Discussion from Fore/aft Balance thread

Postby h.harb » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:13 pm

For those of you who follow my Facebook Page, will have noticed Marc Girardelli is a good friend and he has comments on my forward stance on my skis. Nice to have a coach who was once the best skier in the world. Marc will try to join us in Hintertux.
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