People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS skiing!

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People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS skiing!

Postby h.harb » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:11 pm

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Even here on this forum, I don't think people truly appreciate the level of quality PMTS instruction produces. The rest of the world doesn't ski like we do. This is another National Instructor Demo Team at Interski. This is the best they have, I don't know which team it is, but the mistakes are glaring.

Compare this to Diana and my turns and runs skiing together, it's not the same sport. At least these guys are all skiing with the same mistakes, so it's their own system that created this.
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Re: People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS ski

Postby MarcS » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:16 pm

When I took another look at the video you mention of you and Diana skiing in sinc. I noticed some differences. In the high C of the turn Diana's inside hip was lower whereas yours was more level but during the lower C Diana's was level but yours was was less so. So are these minor differences related to anatomical, male/female hips, style or something else. Also Harald your turns seemed rounder slower in the high C part. I know this is all high level skiing so I may be wrong.
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Re: People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS ski

Postby h.harb » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:21 am

There is will always be minor differences between people, gender, and body proportions in skiing. Hirscher and Gross have different bodies. Ligety and Hirscher use different given strengths or gifts to win. My torso is 2 inches longer than Diana's, my upper body mass is higher and larger, her legs are bigger than mine, these are some of the differences, and they are significant. The key point is we are using the same movements, and Diana and I never ski following each other like this, these runs are totally unpracticed. So right out of the box, we ski the same.

In the runs, we both use counter acting and CB, we both use tipping first and bending and retraction to release. The video doesn't show it, but the snow is hard packed snowmaking, the slope is a steep black rated. Diana is on 155cm and I'm on 165cm SL skis. I'm trying to keep the turns regular and easy to follow, she is fighting to keep the same turns and pace them behind me. If I were skiing on my own, I would be making the turns slightly differently, just as Diana would be. However we are skiing in sync, mostly. And skiing without gross technical errors and breakdowns; compared to the teams who have trained for an International Interski event. They show gross errors everywhere. These gross errors are based in the movement and technical differences between PMTS; and what instructors use.

The bottom line is; Are the skis performing? There is no changing the anatomical proportions we are given, adjustments due to body types, proportions and flexibility. What is happening is PMTS techniques combine to allow skiing performance together regardless of how bodies are different. Whereas techniques and movements the instructors are using do not.

Without being too blunt, I think you'd be better served investigating why the instructor teams show such huge technical deficiencies, vis-a-vis each other and lack of consistent technique, with their own skiing, and movement formula? Are they inferior skiers, or does their technique not hold up? And which technique do you prefer to ski with?

I guess sometimes, people don't appreciate how hard this kind of skiing is to accomplish. If what we are doing were easy, all these National Instructor demo teams would look like they could ski together with the same movements. I didn't find one team that could. I'll give the Austrians the best marks, because they obviously train to achieve the most difficult, intricate combinations and formations. And they do them very fast, however, they do have some major individual technical breakdowns while performing them.
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Re: People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS ski

Postby MarcS » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:07 pm

Thank you Harald. I really do appreciate your integrity and the unique value of PMTS. I meant no disrespect but often over focus on details. After 30+ years of skiing and 10 as a PMTS student I find TTS instructor/demo team skiing, with their unbalanced, awkward, rapid jerky movements, to be annoying, uncomfortable and frustrating to even watch. So I am only trying to improve my MA and PMTS understanding whilst dreaming of more on snow practise. I know that PMTS is the only scientificly based skiing system and thank you for that and your generosity in sharing the reality of it; all the rest is just religion.
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Re: People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS ski

Postby h.harb » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:26 pm

MarcS, I respect the fact that you are a devoted PMTS skier. My mission is to keep clarity and accuracy in our community, with regard to skiing movement, especially relative to our PMTS system and all the others. All the others, except PMTS are exactly the same, from a biomechanics persecutive.

This is another amazingly glaring area of total misconception by every nation that teaches skiing. If you begin with a wedge progression, add extension and steering (leg movements), every ski system in the world, is the same based on those facts.

It's only the truly exceptional skiers within those systems that ski correctly.

Even those skiers have a conflict. Their bodies are telling them to ski efficiently, their teaching and education is telling them to do it inefficiently.

The conundrum is that the best sports scientists in the world of skiing, don't realize this difference. Most scientists are not very good skiers, so it is difficult for them to relate. (yes, I have also skied with them on two different occasions.) I have met and worked with many of the top ones from Austria. This includes professors from the University of Salzburg and Innsbruck. They are still in the dark as to the differences between the biomechanics of skiing.

In summary, should we be surprised that the US Ski Team, USSA and PSIA, are all headed in the wrong direction together???? You would just hope that someone like, Mikaela Shiffrin, follows her instincts relative to how the skis perform, rather than her coaching. She has done so up to now, except for her boot choices and set ups.
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Re: People don't appreciate the level of quality in PMTS ski

Postby MarcS » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:07 pm

I think the phrase you chose; "level of QUALITY", is so important not only in skiing but in every endevour. Quality is being disregarded more and more due to economic and time considerations but the persuit for quality is extemely beneficial to advancing human civilisation. It encourages people to do their best. Economics is a problem not quality. Unfortunately systems don't usually change until a crisis arises; a fault in human evolution. It takes, what I call, a genius to step outside the box. Harald, you are one of those.
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