Halp! Attacked by wedges

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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby h.harb » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:42 am

It will help for you to understand the materials and terminology when you ask for help here. If you are in a wedge you don't have a (skis together) LTE. You didn't tipped enough to have a LTE at the end of your turns in that video. You are still in a wedge at the end of your turn. Take the steps I posted, they are what you need to practice. You can not perform a "Phantom Move" with your skis in a wedge. The basic foundation of PMTS is transfer to the LTE, you can't accomplish that if you are in a wedge!!
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:37 am

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Harald, yes sorry I don't have the books on hand as I'm away from home so couldn't go look up the acronyms :)

h.harb wrote:It will help to you understand the materials and terminology when you ask for help here. If you are in a wedge you don't have a (skis together) LTE. You didn't tipped enough to have a LTE at the end of your turn in that video. You are still in a wedge at the end of your turn. Take the steps I posted, they are what you need to practice. You can not perform a "Phantom Move" with your skis in a wedge. The basic foundation of PMTS is transfer to the LTE, you can't accomplish that if you are in a wedge!!


Max_501 wrote:The turns in the video start with a small wedge when the uphill ski is pushed out to the BTE before the downhill ski is released.


sgarrozzo wrote:Hi skiffie,
SMIM = Single most important movement.
It's the FIRST movement you need to progress. You probably think that LTE is there, but is not there. However there is not the right way.


Yup for sure, as I mentioned before posting the video I think I had both a uphill LTE problem (causing a BTE wedge) and a FFW problem (caused by not pulling back) going on in this video and I think that is what you all are saying? This was legitimately one of my worst runs lol, but at least it's good for analysis.

However, I already knew I still have a BTE wedge problem that I need to work on :) I was hoping to try and fix the FFW situation - because when I was balancing on the LTE (which I should be doing correctly sometimes because the LTE is dug in and the other foot is picked up - just not in this video) I was still having the inside foot fall away and cause a wedge.

Would you suggest I fix the BTE wedge first or the inside foot flailing first (Max's drill sequence suggestion)? or will they both resolve themselves together if I follow that drill sequence?

And last question - Harald mentioned if I'm in a wedge I don't have a proper 'skis together' LTE, and also that if I wedge I can't get an LTE nor tip enough. But from what I understood from Max earlier these could be two different things? The latter (wedging preventing the LTE and tipping) would seem to refer to the uphill ski releasing before getting on the LTE properly and causing a push, etc... which makes sense esp. re this video. But the former ('skis together' LTE) could be caused by either the same uphill ski problem or by the downhill/free ski not being pulled close in and back enough, even if the uphill ski is riding the LTE (which is what my post was originally about) - or have I misunderstood? (feel free to ignore this, I'm sometimes too analytical for my own good and I don't mean to bother anyone!)

Hopefully next time I'm skiing it'll be by myself so I can practice and not with a former racer friend that I need to try and keep up with :P
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby h.harb » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:46 pm

Finish your turn and make sure the inside ski is parallel before you transfer or start a new movement. Hold it parallel to transfer to the LTE. That's it, complete, no more needed, except practicing correctly.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:25 am

h.harb wrote:Finish your turn and make sure the inside ski is parallel before you transfer or start a new movement. Hold it parallel to transfer to the LTE. That's it, complete, no more needed, except practicing correctly.


Awesome. Thanks so much for all the help everyone! I really appreciate it. :D
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:38 am

Hello! I am back with some interesting developments. Last Feb (the original video here) was the last time I skied before this Jan, so almost a year. When I put my boots on in Jan the toes were TERRIBLY squished, I couldn't get forward, etc etc. I emailed Diana who told me that the liner material may have settled in the toes and to store the boots upside down, which worked magically! There was a 3 month break between camp in Dec 2014 and that video I originally posted in Feb 2015, so I think liner jammed toes were probably part of the issue then too.

Anyway, after the liner trick my toes were still squished but the foot felt normal. I could be imagining things but it seemed ten times easier to get forward - it seemed like literally instant disappearance of wedge and almost no thigh burn! Hooray.

So here is some video from Jan. I THINK this looks better but would love to hear your thoughts.

(I am the speck at the top right lol, the last one down the hill. excuse the music, the original sound was crappy)

A few notes/observations of my own:
- These are GIANT skis, 170cm (I'm 5'4 and usually ski a 152cm), fully rockered, 108 underfoot, very little sidecut. Basically the complete opposite of PMTS skis ha. Please allow me a little leeway for this :lol:
- There is still some wobbling going on, especially on left turns because my right boot isn't entirely solid (ongoing saga) so I get nervous when the right foot is the stance foot.
- Need more counter-rotation and counter-acting etc., there's also a bit of twisting but this is also because the skis are SO wide that doing a full PMTS tip put ridiculous torque on my knee so I never committed fully. Add this to icy-ish slopes and no camber and you get slipping and sliding and flailing.
- the liner was fine , but the boots were still short so my toes were still very sore

nevertheless, more improvement required (the outside elbow is the bane of my existence!!) but as I mentioned I *think* it seems reasonably better, if for no other reason than almost no thigh burn - I instantly noticed when I skied wrong and the thigh burn came back. SRTs were not happening on those skis - I'd rather skid than wrench my knees that much, but at least I could do phantoms (not on the video). Can't wait to get my carvers back...

PS. My knee joints felt like jelly at the end of each day. We had powder dumps at Whistler so it was worth it kinda, but still ow.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Hobbit » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:44 am

Not an expert, but all I can conclude from the video is that you are wearing red jacket, white pants and black ski boots (might be wrong on the boots). Upon a more careful study I can see that you are wearing white North Face mittens. That's about it :)
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby sgarrozzo » Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:37 am

It seems to me that you're in the back seat and in the last part of the turn you are falling in the mountain.
Perhaps it would be better to try a less steep slope, starting closer to the cameraman and pass in front of him, continuing a few more turn.
So we can see something more :D
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby DougD » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:35 am

Not a useful video. Here are some tips for posting video that's useable for MA:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2590#p33596

Video aside, there are some changes needed in your basic approach. As stated in the books and repeated here many times:

1. Stay away from steep, challenging terrain when learning new movements. Challenging terrain arouses survival instincts, which invariably cause us to revert to old movements because they feel comfortable and safe, no matter how ineffective they are.

I used to spend my ski days pounding bumps and off-piste double blacks at whatever mountain I was at (including Whistler/Blackcomb). When I got serious about improving my skiing via PMTS, I re-discovered the thrill that can be enjoyed on easy groomers (Green or light Blue). Learning and owning new movements requires hours of focused practice without worrying about picking up excessive speed or losing control and flailing over some cliff. Most of the drills in the books are meant to be performed on just that sort of terrain... and at very slow speeds. Whistler has endless miles of groomers that are perfect for that.

2. No one can learn PMTS on 170cm x 108mm skis. Even Harald has stated that he can't tip skis that wide without serious, concentrated effort and significant knee stress/pain. If he can't do it...

PMTS-suitable skis for you would be your normal 152cm at most, and 70mm underfoot or narrower. My partner is 4" taller than you and skis on a 153cm x 70mm ski. That's plenty of ski for him, as a PMTS novice. (Out of curiosity, why such fat skis? 108mm skis are pretty much useless for anything less than knee-deep powder.)
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Tue Feb 09, 2016 4:11 pm

sgarrozzo wrote:It seems to me that you're in the back seat and in the last part of the turn you are falling in the mountain.
Perhaps it would be better to try a less steep slope, starting closer to the cameraman and pass in front of him, continuing a few more turn.
So we can see something more :D


Yes, possible... especially the falling, because the skis were definitely not good for gripping on ice. next time I will try a different video setup!

DougD wrote:Not a useful video. Here are some tips for posting video that's useable for MA:
http://www.pmts.org/pmtsforum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2590#p33596


Ya, sorry - I know it wasn't the best video but was hoping some general impressions could be gleaned from it! But I suppose hard to do considering wrong skis, etc.

I used to spend my ski days pounding bumps and off-piste double blacks at whatever mountain I was at (including Whistler/Blackcomb). When I got serious about improving my skiing via PMTS, I re-discovered the thrill that can be enjoyed on easy groomers (Green or light Blue). Learning and owning new movements requires hours of focused practice without worrying about picking up excessive speed or losing control and flailing over some cliff. Most of the drills in the books are meant to be performed on just that sort of terrain... and at very slow speeds. Whistler has endless miles of groomers that are perfect for that.


Ha, I don't even touch the bumps and double blacks. I agree with you actually - I quite enjoy the greens and blues! I think this was a blue. Maybe it seems steeper than I thought it was...

(Out of curiosity, why such fat skis? 108mm skis are pretty much useless for anything less than knee-deep powder.)


Because we had knee-deep powder :) This was on the way down from the powder area. The other reason is that my carvers were in Europe (where I live currently) and I was visiting home, and had bought these skis before PMTS so there wasn't really an option as I couldn't bring my carvers back this time. Bringing them back is the plan for next winter though.
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