Halp! Attacked by wedges

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Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:36 am

HI all,

I can't seem to get rid of the evil wedge. I remember during camp I was told that the wedge is due to not transferring weight to the LTE before starting the turn, but I was trying to do a super phantom and definitely had my LTE dug in and as I was starting to tip the ski I could see a wedge happening in front of my eyes. :evil: Also, of course on steep terrain the problem was even worse.

Any thoughts? I also noticed my feet weren't staying together entirely properly and I had some trouble staying forward... could both the space and the wedge be caused by not pulling the free foot back far enough when initiating the turn?

Thanks!
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Skizoo » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:24 am

Video would be really helpful..
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:37 am

I know, I don't really have any because it was a whiteout and hard to see. :\
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Skizoo » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:22 am

Well, without video, it's almost impossible for anyone to offer anything other than very general tips, but if you're starting to tip and you're already wedging then your former uphill ski (new stance ski) has already been released and weight transferred to the BTE of that ski before you've started to tip the new free ski. You're likely leading with the BTE of the new stance ski. It's not the tipping or trying to use a super phantom causing the wedge.

You also said you were skiing in a whiteout.. in those conditions most skiers resort to what are very 'defensive' or 'survival' type movements which means your brain is hard wired to do what it's always done, and that is being BTE dominant
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:33 am

The thing is though, 1) when I was not in a whiteout but still having this problem while skiing slowly, I was looking down at my skis, I could feel and see that my LTE had the weight, but I could see a wedge forming as I started tipping. I hadn't transferred the weight to my BTE yet. The only thing I can think of is that I didn't pull back the free foot enough and so it was just flopping around.

2) during the whiteout (a separate time) it was steeper and I was still trying to do proper turns but it wouldn't work - not sure why.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Skizoo » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:40 am

Your LTE shouldn't be weighted when tipping, it's the free foot. If you're wedging there definitely is a BTE issue. It's really hard without video for anyone offer anything all that helpful to you. Try and get some video. There are several very skilled PMTS coaches here that can offer much better advice than can I.
Last edited by Skizoo on Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Max_501 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:51 am

skiffie wrote:The thing is though, 1) when I was not in a whiteout but still having this problem while skiing slowly, I was looking down at my skis, I could feel and see that my LTE had the weight, but I could see a wedge forming as I started tipping. I hadn't transferred the weight to my BTE yet. The only thing I can think of is that I didn't pull back the free foot enough and so it was just flopping around.


Is it the lifted ski that is making the wedge?

Skizoo wrote:Your LTE shouldn't be weighted when tipping, it's the free foot.


The LTE of the new stance ski (old inside ski) will be weighted during a phantom release as it rolls from the uphill LTE to the BTE. Also, the LTE of the new inside ski may be partially weighted if only the tail is lifted.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Kiwi » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:42 pm

Are you holding the free foot back enough, as you suggest. You must work to keep the free foot back and against the other boot. You may be letting it drift away from the stance leg as well as forward. Some video of slow turns would be helpful.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:42 pm

Are you slightly pigeon toed? How much external rotation do you have in each leg - typically bad in most adult men? When you tip and pull the free foot back are you imagining gluing the instep of your free foot to ankle of the stance foot. You will be surpised how much effort is required to do this. Typically, the adductor muscles - the ones that squeeze your thighs together, tend to be underdeveloped in most people unless you conciously exercise them. These muscles are very important in skiing. Look at ACBAES2 - the OFR series. Hh even uses a Nerf ball between his ankles...the strength to do this is key to PMTS development and is much overlooked/ ignored...
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby BigE » Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:08 pm

What sort of boots do you have?
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby skiffie » Mon Mar 09, 2015 2:45 am

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Too many posts to quote so I'll just reply everything at once:

1) Yes, it's the LTE of the uphill (new stance ski, old inside ski) that's weighted (as intended).

2) yes, it's the tipping/lifted ski (downhill, new free ski) that's causing the wedge.

3) OMG, I am TOTES pigeon toed! Also in case you couldn't tell from this sentence I am not an adult male. :P I don't think I have too much external rotation, when they did my boots at HSS they said I had fairly strong foot muscles. I'm also not overly flexible so...

4) and that brings me to boots, I have boots that HSS set me up with so all is correct (alignment, heel lift, etc.)

5) I actually did forget to glue the instep to ankle... I'd forgotten about that actually! I thought the only thing that could cause a wedge was a BTE issue on the uphill ski but that definitely wasn't the case here.

Question: Is forgetting to glue the instep to the ankle the only thing that would cause a free-ski-wedge, or could not pulling the foot back enough also cause one?
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:29 am

"Free foot management" should solve this issue -

Spend some time working on the Super phantom with touch-tilt:

As in a regular super phantom, transfer balance to LTE of the uphill ski. Then, touch the inside edge of the lifted, dowhnill ski to the inside ankle rivet of the stance boot ("inside foot arch touches outside foot ankle"). Keep it touching while tipping the free foot further toward its LTE. Don't let that free foot touch the snow until the very end of the turn. VERY IMPORTANT STEP! At the end of the turn, when the free foot touches the snow on its LTE, immediately pick up the new free foot, and touch-tilt the new stance boot.

When learning, you can begin with keeping the tip of the free ski on the snow, but the goal is to keep the whole ski lifted throughout the turn which is a true test of your ability to balance on the outside ski.

Teach the Pole Press drill (pages 68 - 69 of book 2) to one of your friends and ask them to spend a few minutes working with you so you get the feel for the muscular effort needed to keep the inside foot under control.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby JBurke » Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:54 pm

I think I was doing a similar thing. When inspecting my ski tracks, I noticed a large (foot wide) brushed fanning track from the new free ski and a single deep track from the stance ski. What I think was happening is that when I counteracted the other way after beginning to tip the new stance ski from LTE to BTE, I was allowing the rotation of my upper body to swing the tail of the new free ski out. I think I could have been subconsciously allowing this to happen as a crutch in case my new stance ski lost edge. The key for me was to work on sufficient counterbalance so I had confidence that my edge would hold and then of course hold the free ski tight to the side of the stance boot. When I did this, the wedge disappeared.
Another possibility it that when you transfer weight to your new stance ski, you are putting your weight on the ball of your new stance foot rather than centered over your arch; when I do this, it pushes the tail of the stance ski out into a wedge. This happens to me when I don't initiate the turn soon enough to allow the skis to turn on their own; like panic mode so I don't go off the edge of the trail. Also any kind of inside heel lift or heel pain throws me into the same ball of foot weighting.
I'm male, 5' 7", 135 lbs.
Max please correct me if you see anything wrong in the above.
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby RRT » Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:26 pm

Allow me to mention that Harald and Diana have put together 3 separate videos on this topic, Eliminate the Wedge 1, Eliminate the Wedge 2 and Eliminate the Wedge 3: the Super Phantom, all of which may be helpful.

http://harbskisystems.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=102
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Re: Halp! Attacked by wedges

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:06 pm

JBurke wrote:Max please correct me if you see anything wrong in the above.


Looking at tracks can tell you something isn't working but not "what" isn't working. You need video or a coach for that.

RRT wrote:Allow me to mention that Harald and Diana have put together 3 separate videos on this topic, Eliminate the Wedge 1, Eliminate the Wedge 2 and Eliminate the Wedge 3: the Super Phantom, all of which may be helpful.


Great videos but likely not applicable for this student.

The solution is provided in my earlier post...
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