Two footed skiing

[BigE]

After doing one footed releases, how can you begin to incorporate the two footed release into your skiing? ie, When should one begin the weight transfer to the new stance foot? I am assuming that the turn being completed has 100% weight on the outside ski/stance foot and no weight on the free foot.

Thanks for all your help!

[RRT]

BigE » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:14 pm

After doing one footed releases, how can you begin to incorporate the two footed release into your skiing? ie, When should one begin the weight transfer to the new stance foot? I am assuming that the turn being completed has 100% weight on the outside ski/stance foot and no weight on the free foot.

In the eVideo on Brushed Carve Turns, Diana does a superbly beautiful job of demonstrating the one footed and two footed skiing relationship via the choice of edge angle and relative weighting of skis in turning and brushing off speed. I found the video to be an updated sequential explanation/demonstration in a practical application situation.

http://harbskisystems.com/index.php?opt ... Itemid=102

[Ken]

I don't transfer the weight to the new stance foot. When I wish to end the turn, I flex both legs. Momentum and reaction from stretched torso muscles carries my body across the skis, and those forces bring my body down the hill while I allow the new stance leg to lengthen. The new free leg stays flexed while I tip & pull back the free foot, counteract & counterbalance.

[geoffda]

E-you might be over thinking things a bit. Fundamentally, you have two choices for when you transfer balance. 1) You can transfer balance prior to the release, which is a one-footed release. 2) You can transfer balance after the release. This can be done either by partially transferring balance as you release (which is a two-footed release) or keeping your balance on the old, weighted stance foot until you are ready to do a complete transfer (weighted release). The latter is very hard to do, so if you simply choose to focus on releasing you will likely end up with a two-footed release. In either case, the point at which you choose to complete the transfer is up to you. The operative word being "choose". If you were able to maintain balance while transitioning, you will have complete control over when the balance transfer occurs. If you were out of balance, you will spend some part of the arc in recovery mode and during that time, you will have minimal control over your skis.

The stationary two-footed release drills in Expert Skier 2 are a great place to start. Balance is two-footed as you release, but then you have to consciously complete the transfer to the new stance foot as you ride the flat skis towards the fall line. When you first do these, the idea is to exercise some patience and be very deliberate about using the time you have before reaching the fall-line to accomplish the transfer. As you become proficient, the idea is to start linking TFRs into brushed carves. To do that effectively, you will have to start engaging the skis earlier in the arc, which means the transfer will need to occur earlier as well. Eventually, this leads to the ability to perform release, transfer, and engagement across the entire spectrum of possibilities, which in turn leads to the ability to generate any turn shape you like.

[BigE]

Thanks for all the responses.

geoffda: You are saying I choose between transfer BEFORE release ( one footed release/OFR), and transfer AFTER release (two footed release/TFR).

I thought it was ALWAYS Release/Transfer/Engage irrespective of the release?

[Eiszapfen]

@geoffda: You did a great job, very clear explanation. Now I think I can distinguish (theoretically) between OFR and TFR. In case of a TFR I already knew that one has to have a two footed balance, but I didn't know what to do when I reach the fallline. Complete transfer to the new stance ski, now it's clear.

[DougD]

Thanks for all the responses.

geoffda: You are saying I choose between transfer BEFORE release ( one footed release/OFR), and transfer AFTER release (two footed release/TFR).

I thought it was ALWAYS Release/Transfer/Engage irrespective of the release?

BigE, you heard him right. There's no ALWAYS, each sequence has a place in expert skiing.

PMTS movements for newbies (in ACBAES1) teach T-R-E in that order because, as Geoffda noted, it's the easiest sequence to learn and do. This produces the OFR, after which we learn the full Phantom Move and Super Phantom Move. These should be mastered before attempting the other sequences.

TFRs (R-T-E) and WRs (R-E-T) are more advanced movements. The expert owns them all and chooses whichever sequence is most appropriate for the circumstances. For example, skiing difficult bumps really well requires all three because the terrain underfoot keeps changing so rapidly.

The WR is the most difficult sequence and most skiers never get it. I occasionally do one by accident, but I certainly don't own it!

Harald's most recent blog post about Anna Fenninger shows and discusses a WR by one of the best technical WC skiers.

[cheesehead]

This may seem obvious (unless I've got it wrong!)
In these release-transfer-engage type s of descriptions does "engage" mean "flip LTE to BTE"

[BigE]

Oh my.... thanks DougD . I had fabricated some BS to justify RTE for every turn.

[DougD]

BigE, glad my attempt at clarification was helpful!

This may seem obvious (unless I've got it wrong!)
In these release-transfer-engage type s of descriptions does "engage" mean "flip LTE to BTE"

"Engage" means to tip a weighted ski away from flat until it's up on edge, such that the ski's behavior on snow is controlled by its edge rather than its base.

Whether a weighted ski is Engaged by moving it to the LTE or BTE depends on what kind of turn you're making (per Geoffda's and my descriptions above). For example:

* a OFR (Phantom or Super Phantom) works as you descibed: the new stance ski is Engaged when it flips from LTE to BTE
* on the other hand, a WR commences with movements that flip the old stance ski from BTE to LTE

The opposite of "Engage" is "Release", which means to tip a weighted ski toward flat until it's riding flat on the base, such that the ski's behavior on snow is controlled by its base and not its edges.

[Max_501]

The opposite of "Engage" is "Release", which means to tip a weighted ski toward flat until it's riding flat on the base, such that the ski's behavior on snow is controlled by its base and not its edges.

Lifting the ski off the snow will also start a release (e.g. Phantom)

[cheesehead]

Thanks, Doug!! It is sometimes amazing how I can have trouble nailing down these basic concepts long after I thought I had it understood.

[DougD]

Good point Max, thanks.

A better statement would be, "The opposite of "Engage" is "Release", which means to alter an Engaged ski's attitude until its behavior is no longer controlled by its edge. This can be done by (1) lifting the ski off the snow, or (2) tipping the ski until it's riding flat on its base."

Of course lifting also accomplishes Transfer. Therefore, a Phantom is R1&T simultaneously, followed quickly by E. The Super Phantom inserts a contolled delay after R1&T before E.

To hell with this! I should be skiing, instead of sitting here at my PC pretending to work!

[Eiszapfen]

Short question: Is it true that there's only a "float" when you use the TFR?

[VicP]

Oh my.... thanks DougD . I had fabricated some BS to justify RTE for every turn.

Chances are that you and most others are going to use R(elease)T(ransfer)E(ngage) for >95% of your turns. While the O(ne)F(ooted)R(elease) can be described as TRE, in reality you are releasing when you lift/lighten your stance ski while the inside ski is still on the LTE.

The TFR is demonstrated by Harald in slow skiing (gradual transfer) videos but is also what you use in High-C turns (see "Essentials" pgs. 68-69 - "Target Tipping") where the edge change is a lot faster leaving you "upside-down" tipping uphill.

What's funny is that I could not find the W(eighted) R(elease) anywhere in the Essentials book - might be there, but could not find it. I remember practicing it at several of the PMTS camps I attended, but it never seemed to be emphasized, at least not when compared to the OFR and TFR. Doing the WR is certainly a great skill requiring edge and body control, but it seemed to me that PMTS was mostly about inside or free foot tipping which is a lot harder(!!) when the inside foot is not free - at least not for a while (~the first 1/3 of the arc).

Interesting read on Harald's blog about the Anna Fenninger using the WR in the Maribor GS. Truthfully, I thought that she had simply and momentarily lost her balance winding up on the inside ski - but I leave that to Harald to decide if it was intentional. As the WR is/has been known as "Von Grunningen Turn" a found a few UTube videos of his races. He certainly uses the WR technique consistently and certainly does "smoke."