Edge locking? What does this mean

PMTS Forum

Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:44 pm

Hi Guys,

What does edge locking your skiis mean? Has anyone heard off this term before?

Jeet
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby jbotti » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:46 pm

It means that the skis leave tracks that form one line (from each ski) or rail(s) in the snow and there is no displacement of the tail during the arc. This is a little different from what we call Brushed carving which uses the same basic movements but the tails gently brush the snow making different tracks than the two rails produced in edge lock carving. Outside of PMTS you see a lot skiing that involves pivoting and uses significant force to move the tails causing significant tail displacement. This could be considered the opposite of edge lock carving.
Balance: Essential in skiing and in life!
User avatar
jbotti
 
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:05 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby h.harb » Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:46 pm

Adding to this, edge locking occurs when you are not able or don't understand progressive tipping. Edge locking is either on or off, it's not useful as an off piste tool or groomer technique, it's what you end up with if you are following leg steering instruction from PSIA or CSIA. Neither one of these teaches: bending, flexing and tipping movements, therefore skiers don't know how to tip, which ends up in a desperate attempt to carve, using hip dumping and big toe edge knee drive. That is not modern ski technique, it's desperation.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Thu Oct 09, 2014 4:57 am

Thank you for the insight. I hear this term getting thrown by BASI coaches in London in the indoor skii center, that's the reason why I raised the post. I tend to stay clear of them :). It's been about 7 months that I have been skiing for 2.5 hours with a total dedication to PMTS, will get my MA submitted very soon.

PS: Just purchased the Free Skiing DVD, it's brilliant, can't stop watching it, it's full of great information and footage. Thanks Harald.
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby skijim13 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:04 am

I would start with the Expert I video followed by the Essentials and Expert II videos. The free skiing video is great but you need the others to begin to learn the details about PMTS. There is alot more to it than meets the eye. I have been working on it for the past two years, and find the more I learn about PMTS the less I really knew about skiing. I have been teaching skiing for 9 years and never really learned the true way to ski from the PSIA
skijim13
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Nazareth PA USA

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Matt » Thu Oct 09, 2014 5:36 am

If you push a knife down into a piece of wood and drag it along with 90 degree angle between the blade and wood you will scrape the surface. If you gradually make the angle sharper the knife will eventually cut down into the wood instead. That is edge-locked. Same with skis and snow.
Last edited by Matt on Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Matt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:15 pm
Location: Northern Sweden

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:23 am

Thanks Matt, I have a complete understanding.
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Thu Oct 09, 2014 6:42 am

Hi skijim13,

I totally agree and that's what I started with. When I started my study/journey I said to myself I will not skip any steps and start from the very beginning. (I would describe myself as a slightly paranoid skier in terms of PMTS technique, always making sure I am making the correct movements and doing them slowly). Fortunately I started skiing PMTS from the very start, as a beginner from the very first time I had layed my hands on a pair skiis, so not having to re-program bad movements. I have been told just like Max that I skii old school, I smiled and thought "I must be doing something right"

To really see how good my skiing is and the improvement areas will come from the MA I will submit in a couple of days time.

Thanks

Jeet
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby h.harb » Thu Oct 09, 2014 7:33 am

I would not be too concerned about what others say about the way you ski. Especially instructors trained only in BASI systems, they have no understanding of the way skiing should look or be performed and how to get to the high levels of skiing.

And another case in point, I have read many reports about Michael Schumacher's accident. It was unfortunate, yes, however in almost every report, it states that Schumacher was an expert skier. So now as long as you can go fast down "Red" (Black in the US) runs in the Alps, you are an expert. I've watched Schumacher skiing and seen many photos of his skiing. He was not an expert skier, not by a long shot. However skiing is no longer viewed or valuing the state of proficiency for turning a ski. This is especially ironic in a time when we have available skis that turn far better than anything in history.

Being able to ski in control with elegant turns is no longer valued by instructors, the media and the currant generation. The Go Pro is the current standard for measuring your skiing ability. A frenzied flurry of indeterminable action, is the current highly appreciated standard of skiing excellence.
User avatar
h.harb
 
Posts: 7047
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Dumont, Colorado

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:22 am

I had this thought about 3 months ago. I was first chuffed about good skiing comments but come to realize that I should ignore comments like "your skiing is really coming along". They were making these comments like this whilst I was making the wrong movements like not balancing on my stance leg (not having a long n short leg (check list point 1), both of my legs were of equal length through the turn). I realized this after taking videos of myself skii. Then I realized comments like these mean nothing and they do nothing for my development (if not careful they could make me complacent), until they come from an accredited PMTS coach.
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Max_501 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:23 pm

If your skis are scribing an arc in the snow without any skidding AND you lack the ability to brush or bend the ski then you are edge locked.
User avatar
Max_501
 
Posts: 4124
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:39 pm

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby JohnMoore » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:38 am

Jeet, I've nothing to add to this particular discussion, but just wanted to say 'Hello!' to another fellow British skier who's discovered PMTS. That's a little group of us now. Sadly we come from the land of the worst ski instruction system I know of (BASI), and virtually no-one over here has heard of PMTS, possibly because it's pretty well invisible in Europe (only Guus and Jasper Heinsius teach it, at their dry ski slope near Dordrecht in Holland, as far as I know). I keep hoping that will change. The more of us there are on here, the more hope there is for some future for PMTS teaching in Europe.
JohnMoore
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:44 pm
Location: Norfolk, England

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby skijim13 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:54 am

Even here in the US the PSIA has a lock on ski instruction and things are not much better. The PSIA is still not progressing just adding more tests and programs but producing poor skiers. I just had a fellow PSIA instructor repeat again what our trainer said which is to skate into all your turns, when I called him on it he changed his tune and said what you really should do is get onto your big toe quickly. I offered to send him information on how PMTS skiers make their turns but he did not even want to see it, typical PSIA narrow mind approach.
skijim13
 
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 9:17 am
Location: Nazareth PA USA

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Matt » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:14 am

skijim13 wrote: I just had a fellow PSIA instructor repeat again what our trainer said which is to skate into all your turns,

Maybe he confused alpine skiing with XC-skating? :lol:
Matt
 
Posts: 353
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:15 pm
Location: Northern Sweden

Re: Edge locking? What does this mean

Postby Jeet » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:59 am

Thanks JohnMoore and to everyone who commented on this thread. PMTS teaching in Holland? closer than I actually thought. We definitely need more PMTS in Europe/UK. I refer to all my fellow skiing friends to the PMTS site/blog and DVDs and the group is getting bigger and bigger, it creates an exciting opportunity for them as they realize they can too be skiing with wold cup technique rather dead end coaching from BASI.

The other issue is the lack of professional boot fitters who recognize alignment to be very crucial part of the boot setup. If any of you guys know or recommend any pro boot fitters in the UK please let me know.

Have a great season everyone.

Jeet
User avatar
Jeet
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am

Next

Return to Primary Movements Teaching System

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests