If You Can Only Do 1 Thing....

[jbotti]

Max and I skied in Montana today with my brother and 3 of his children. My brother and his oldest son are what the skiing world would call intermediate skiers. They can ski pretty much all groomed terrain but the stem is ever present. Ideally we would have liked them to have moved quickly to the phantom move and to spend the day on lifting and tipping. Neither of them have had their alignment done by a trained PMTS alignment tech (or by anyone else) and neither of them has PMTS made footbeds. Without this alignment and footbed work neither had any real shot of balancing on one ski while lifting and tipping the other.

Can we give them some solid instruction and make sure that they progress over the next week? Absolutely, but what they will be able to do and how far they can progress will be very limited by the alignment issues (which gets corrected with first a proper footbed and then boot canting).

Both Max and I saw first hand today how step one for all skiers is footbeds and alignment work. From there you have a platform from which you can physically produce the proper movements. Without it, most have little shot. Harald has said over and over that roughly 90% of skiers need some form of alignment work. Max and I both know that we could not ski without our alignment work (which has been significant on our boots).

I know that I would trouble balancing on ski and lifting and tipping the other with my alignment left uncorrected. With it corrected it is easy (and I have spent countless hours practicing it).

From reading many posts this year there are a lot of aspiring PMTS skiers that want to progress and are even dedicating time to do drill work but that also have not gotten their alignment done. As the topic of the thread states, if you can only do 1 thing to help your skiing, get your alignment done!!

For someone that has not had alignment work, it may be very hard to understand the significance and how game changing it is for one's skiing. But any PMTS skier who has had the work done will tell you that it is a game changer.

Again if you can only do 1 thing over the next year to help your skiing, get your alignment done by a trained PMTS Tech.

[HighAngles]

Or you can hope you're just part of the lucky 10% that doesn't need alignment work.

[BigE]

Agreed.

I've been adjusting my alignment this season which is still just a hair over canted on both skis. This becomes really noticeable only when using narrower skis. Wider skis, such as those 70 mm and up, have a fulcrum that creates a lateral leveling effect when the alignment is close. Duct tape between the under boot plate used for the initial 'shop' alignment and boot works well to make these small adjustments.

At this point, balancing on one ski when moving on flat/light green does not cause any upper body gyrations, or odd hip angles, but a slight turn on edge towards the body centre line does happen with 64 mm waisted skis. ie. right footed balance makes a slight left turn. It is quite easy to ski on one ski with a 70mm waist, where the tendency to turn on edge is almost absent due to the flattening effect of the fulcrum.

Boots are Salomon Xmax 130 (white/yellow).

[Basil j]

Here in the northeast it is hard to find a shop that will commit to spending time to do an alignment properly. Although I have been using Strands in worcester for years for my boots, they no longer seem to be interested in spending the time to do an alignment and no longer will put cant plates under a binding or do work on the bottom of a boot. I can get a great fitting pair of boots there with a comfy footbed, but that is it.
I went to Sportoma in Woodstock hoping to get an alignment assessment and the boot fitter there said that they don't have the tools or time to do alignments outside of adjusting cant alignments on the cuff.Maybe if I purchased my boots there, they have had a different attitude, but I know the guys that work there and have been getting my tunes done for years there so I have to assume they do not.
There has to be someplace where all the kids who race in NH go, I just don't know where it is and I would definetely benefit from an alignment as would my wife and my daughter for sure.
I heard the speed shop in Campton has a good guy, but don't know anyone who ahs used him before.

[skijim13]

A good place in the Northeast is Green Mountain Orthotic Lab for boot fitting location Potter Brothers Ski Shop at Bromley Mountain. Not as good as a PMTS boot fitter but does a good job.

[midwif]

Glen Scannell (sp?) is back in New Hampshire.
Dan boisvert may have more info.
Glen is HSS boot alignment trained and worked with racers in NH.

[go_large_or_go_home]

Having played with alignment, paid a s**tload for crap alignment and finally having the proper PMTS work done. There is no comparison. Unfortunately, there is nobody in the uk that provides this service, and I have toyed (not sure of that is the correct spelling) with the idea of becoming a PMTS trained alignment tech myself. However, I still need to work out a business plan to justify the expenditure.

As with the northeast of the US, there is nobody qualified. Anyone else thought that a qualification would make sense, as I would be interested in their troughs...I have a dry slope, where I can at least do 'on the snow/ plastic' assessments all year round, but not sure if there is a big enough market etc....big enough at least to convince the wife......

Max - do you use your qualification commercially or as another string to your PMTS coaching bow?

[ToddW]

There are only two places to get correct alignment done on the East Coast.

1) Glenn Scannell (former HSS Camp coach and blue PMTS instructor) is again working through Sport Thoma at Waterville Valley. He mainly works work with racers and always by appointment, so it may take some calendar bending to see him. It is worth it.

2) Zuschauer on this forum operates a ski shop in western PA and is a Harb certified alignment specialist.

If you're planning a trip to the front range of Colorado next season, call and make an alignment appointment with Chris and Greg at the Harb shop. You drive right by their shop if you're heading from the Denver airport to any of the major ski areas. Make your first day a travel, altitude adjustment, and alignment day. Get footbeds and initial alignment in the shop, ski for a couple hours for an on-snow alignment check with Chris, and get the final changes installed permanently on your boots.

[dan.boisvert]

Basil, if you really want to know where a lot of the NH racers go, send me a PM. There are plenty of shops around who will spend lots of time on alignment. We just don't recommend them here, because the quality of the work is enormously variable, and you may end up aligned backwards (ask me how I know) or sideways. The difference between a PMTS fitter and the other shops is night and day, but fitting and alignment is treated largely as a black art, and most people's recommendations aren't terribly valuable, because even the racer population is made up of largely uneducated consumers.

Glen seems to be mostly done with ski stuff for the season, but is looking to be back at Waterville next season. He's the only one in New England I'd recommend.

Dave at the Speed Factory in Campton is a great guy and great tuner, but he doesn't do much with boots anymore. I've talked to him about it, and actually bought my B2's on consignment from him. Those boots are currently with Glen.

[Max_501]

Max - do you use your qualification commercially or as another string to your PMTS coaching bow?

I don't coach commercially. I made the journey to become a blue so I could do a better job coaching my friends and family.

With regards to alignment, first you need a properly made footbed. Because of this self alignment may not work.

[BigE]

So max, if you could do only one thing..... would it be get a decent footbed?

[zuschauer]

Hate to reiterate: much of this info in the books where fit and alignment are addressed! First and foremost a good boot fit which means the right size, width, and type of type boot for a given skier. After boot fit comes a foot bed, which is a valuable addition for the majority of skiers. (not all footbeds are made the same!!!!!!) A nice basic footbed is made by Archmolds and is stocked by HSS. The best is a footbed made by a Harb certified specialist.After all this, you can address alignment which also includes fore/aft. Not just a lateral "fix".

If you have a decent fit, yes, a footbed would be my priority before alignment/canting. Because without a proper fit and a footbed, alignment is wasted. It's like trying to do the advanced drills without mastering the basic ones. Possibly some value there, but that can also be waste of time.

[WNYSkier]

I'll be right upfront here: Zuschauer built a pair of boots for me this year and I can honestly say that I have never been better balanced on my skis...ever....His footbed, bootwork, and alignment allowed me to make fundamental changes in my skiing: build bigger angles, release earlier and pressure in a shorter arc in the fall line. I will say it took me the better part of a month to take advantage of what correct bio-mechanical alignment would allow me to execute technically.

I have had plug boots fitted,footbeds built and alignment done by some of the best known race shops and bootfitters over the years but the work that Richard does is simply at another level. And sorry, but that includes some of the shops mentioned in this thread.

The fact is that certified PMTS boot technicians (engineers?) are working from a different playbook than the SureFoot, Masterfit certified folks and even the pedorthists (who, in my experience have done the worst job in evaluating my footbed needs and don't seem to understand how a ski boot is supposed to work). The knowledge and training of the PMTS certified boot fitter is no different than it is with PMTS certified instructors vs. TTS instructors, which come to think of it isn't unexpected.

As Zuschauer pointed out, the evaluation and fit process is much more extensive than typical "find neutral and fill in the voids" approach which is so common among boot fitters. Expect to spend a fair bit of time and money to have a PMTS fitting, then more time doing some on snow evaluation (although in my case I was aligned within 1/2 degree at the shop). The results are worth it.

Unless you're in Europe (or AUS!) there really isn't an excuse not to have the work done by a PMTS certified bootfitter. I drove 6 hours each way and spent the night to have the work done. It was worth twice the price.

If you're dedicated to being the best skier you can be there are two things you can do: Follow the PMTS technical path and get equipment that advances rather than impedes your ability to ski.

If you're in the East PM Zuschauer and get after it. Period.

Cheers,

[Max_501]

If you have a decent fit, yes, a footbed would be my priority before alignment/canting. Because without a proper fit and a footbed, alignment is wasted. It's like trying to do the advanced drills without mastering the basic ones. Possibly some value there, but that can also be waste of time.

Exactly!

[marsound]

I'm committed to getting foot beds and alignment done by a PMTS trained boot fitter, but I probably won't be able to make it to a camp/HSS next season.

Given my location, I'll have to purchase boots from a non-PMTS fitter/shop first (I need new boots - long story), and then drive a few hours to get the foot beds and alignment done, since the closest PMTS-trained fitter doesn't sell boots. I'd also like to purchase the boots near my home mountain for any needed tweaks...

Questions:

Any tips on how I can make this a successful endeavor?
Can a reputable non-PMTS fitter at least do a good job of fitting the shell (some comments on this thread are causing me to have doubts)?
If I want a heat-moldable liner done at the boot shop, how will that affect the PMTS foot bed/alignment process?
Should I ski in the boots a while before the PMTS work so I can have the boot shop do any needed stretching/punching?
How necessary is on-snow assessment?