The Fallacy of the Full Ski Day

[jbotti]

At 54, I know I can't do what I was able to do 10 and 15 years ago whether it be with skiing, cycling or any physical activity. I ski much smarter than I ever did before partially because I have to but a lot because I am smarter and wiser today. How much quality, highly focused, high energy ski time do any of us have in us each day. If you look at WC racers who are arguably in the best shape of anyone in the world, they are on snow working hard for maybe 2.5 hours each day, max 3 hours of high energy, highly focused work. I think if you ask any of the top PMTS skiers (Harald, Diana, Jay, Max etc) how many hours they can go full out, in tight high energy turns on piste or off, I doubt any would say more than three hours. I find i max out somewhere between 2.5 and 3 hours if I'm going quite hard and if I go 4-5 hours real hard I won't have a lot in the tank the next day.

Ideally I would love to be on snow 5 days each week for around 2.5 hours each day. This is pretty much what Geoffda and the rest of the Keystone/A-Basin gang do. They ski every weekday for 1:45 or so and the head off to their jobs, lives etc. It's pretty much what Max has done for years, 5 days per week of skiing usually with none being much longer than 3 or so hours (big pow days and a few other occasions being the exception). There is no doubt this is the fastest way to progress.

I am using this model as my guide even though I only ski 40 days per year and they are almost always in packages of 5-15 days at a time. I have found many days this season that I have gotten a great result in 2.5 hours with some drill work followed by some highly focused high energy skiing (no cruising). In the past I would stay out and watch my skiing deteriorate as the day went on and often to come back the next day with less than quality energy for another days work.

Actually those of us that ski limited days and live a ways from the slopes, need to maximize our energy and focus more than those that live close and ski 100+ days per year. We are all adjusting to being at altitude (where we don't live) and even if you are in your twenties or early thirties, no one can slam it hard for 6-8 or 10 days straight and still have quality energy and or focus. All of us have woken up slammed from the day before at times.

For me the model is 2.5 to 3 high energy hours of skiing and if I go longer I know two things, my skiing will be deteriorating and I will in some way pay for it tomorrow. On a big pow day that's OK and well worth the price. (Yes we can all cruise with low energy, wide GS turns and stay on snow all day but IMO that is both a waste of snow and time, and some drill work can be easier on the body and can be done for more hours in a day).

Add to this the rule of skiing max 4 days straight without taking a day off (which all of us break at times) and you have the model for maximizing ones ski time. At least IMO. I'm sure someone will disagree with me!

[CO_Steve]

It wasn't how I imagined it would be before I moved to the area. I thought like many I'd ski on the good days and take the bad days off until it snowed again.
PMTS changed the equation. First, there really are no bad days. The harder the snow the better you need to be. Second, like you said, going easy really isn't any fun. And going hard is well, hard.
So yea, we ski 2-2.5 hours a day. I'm sometimes tired after that. I'm rarely tired the next day, even after five days straight.
It also works on a practical level. Geoff has to go to work, though others will stay later if it's good. The mountain gets a lot more crowded after 10:30. The snow is best early.
Mother Nature usually provides some time off. Not a fan of sub-zero temperatures, really bad light, or big wind. We don't get a lot of any of that.

[Ihamilton]

John, I agree with you and I live near a big mountain and get lots of days in. My definition of a day is 3-4 hours. Like Colorado Steve, its not my legs that make me stop, it is my waning focus. Each day there comes moments when I don't have the same acute awareness of where my pole tips are or I am not feeling the edges as well, etc, so I quit. If I just cruise with no focus, what I am really doing is practicing bad habits.

[Skizoo]

I'm 57 and still manage to ski 120-140 days per year, but my average ski day is about the same, generally 1.5-3 hrs with the average somewhere in between. I'm in summit county for most of April so getting to ski with the summit guys. I'll probably push myself a bit more while I'm here simply because the skiing is better than what I generally get daily in VT and the season is nearing its end.

Yesterday we had several inches of heavy wet snow and while it was a blast to ski (reminded me of VT), and my legs felt fine last night, there definitely was a bit more fatigue in the legs today.

There might be 5 days per year where I'll ski longer than 3 hours and that's usually when I have friends skiing with me who don't ski much and want to max their ski day.

When I was a teenager into my 20s skiing in Pennsylvania it was every weekend 8am -10 pm. I can't even imagine that today.

[Max_501]

Racers can handle about 8-10 runs in the course before they begin to degrade and they are much stronger than any of us.

[RRT]

This thread begs the question concerning camp schedules, i.e., 5 days at 6 hours per day for other than Green/Blue and Blue/Dark Blue. I made it through 5 days of Green/Blue at 3.5/4 hours per day but have to admit that, by Friday, the focus and freshness were lacking.

[HeluvaSkier]

Here is the thing... These guys are talking about HARD skiing. Max is right on when he says racers have about 8 runs at 100% in them every day. I find that I can only hold up to mornings at my maximum. Does that mean you can't learn as the day progresses? HELL NO! My usual day schedule is hard skiing in the morning and then I dial it back and do drills on easy terrain in the afternoon. I learn a TON in the afternoons, and my skiing improves going into the next day. I cannot ski the entire day at 100, or even 85%... your body will fall apart.

[Gepardi]

What I’m taking from the contributions on this thread is that what counts and should be the focus is quality and not quantity. It is a timely reminder for me, thanks! There are a couple of things I want to throw in.
I’ve attended the Hintertux Camp twice and it has a high altitude training schedule of 6 hours on snow X 5 consecutive days. Last time I skied two part days immediately prior to acclimatize to the altitude. After camp I skied two part days to reinforce the camp lessons learnt plus a private lesson. I’m sixty and I didn’t find the camp schedule over-demanding. Neither did anyone else to my knowledge bar a seventy-six year old with hips replacements and then he only took one afternoon off! In groups of six you spend most of your time, to great benefit, observing others performing and being coached and that provides a lot of recovery time for when you demonstrate what you have got or not. You spend six hours on snow but not six hours skiing.
What I found far more physically demanding was the private lesson when you really need to muster whatever fitness resources you have as the coach can match your personal condition to the personal training. Personally, if I found that I was flagging during a camp my first reaction would be to check my hydration, diet, alcohol intake, stretching and rest regime, my ski selection and then my general fitness and pre-camp preparation. Then I would question my camp selection, whether the camp’s altitude, terrain and target group were appropriate to my current abilities before I would question anything else. I’m not saying that there may not be other camp schedules/locations that could be explored, Diana last year requested feedback on this topic from this forum and new Harb camp types have been added this season. What I am saying is that the existing camp format has inbuilt recovery time at a generous level. So if I were to find myself flagging I would ask myself questions first before I questioned the camp format.
What jbotti says about being older and becoming wiser and smarter resonates. Getting older doesn’t necessarily equate with being less physically able. Through deliberate effort and programs (e.g. Pilates) I’ve become as flexible, if not more so, as I was in my thirties. Like so many other PMTS skiers, I’ve become more attuned to what my body needs and how to supply that. I do whatever it takes. I stretch more, I sauna and cold plunge as my apres-ski. I do muscle-strengthening gym work, stamina training and specific balance training that take into account the progressive requirements of PMTS. Others here do this and more. When I hit physical limits, of course I get frustrated, but then I realize that at least for now I have to work within that. Age, whatever the particular digits, has its own challenges and makes for a poor excuse. To quote my first PMTS instructor, “Getting older is not for sissy’s!”

[JBurke]

"This is pretty much what Geoffda and the rest of the Keystone/A-Basin gang do. They ski every weekday for 1:45 or so and the head off to their jobs, lives etc."

Geoff,
Will the Keystone/A-Basin gang be at Keystone, or, A-Basin on April 8 thru 12th, and where do you meet in the morning?
It looks like the temperatures could be in the mid 30s.
JBurke

[CO_Steve]

We continue to ski Keystone until it closes (April 20 this year). Meet in the Pika parking lot just east of Mtn House at about 8:45.

[JBurke]

Thanks Steve.

[sujo]

I feel like I've done some of my better skiing at the end of the day. Focusing on tipping as much as possible in the phantom was making the skis pop today. There was some serious slush that skiers were taking their skis off and walking down the hill but the two footed release into phantom move and blowing up piles of snow made the slush fun. Two years ago I quit the season early because the slush owned me. By getting better at PMTS movements it is much easier.

[jbotti]

I feel like I've done some of my better skiing at the end of the day.
.

I would say that runs counter to my experience. It would be interesting to look at video to see if your "feeling" is correct. I have had days where I have had video shot the whole day. Never am I skiing my best at the end of a day of reasonably hard skiing.

[HighAngles]

In the early season it's pretty clear to me that my skiing needs about an hour of warm-up and then I'm skiing at my peak for the day for about another hour. In the height and later part of the season I find that my best skiing is in the first hour (no warm-up necessary) and then starts dropping off as the day progresses. I've always thought that it was due to my fitness level (and I'm hoping to prove that going into next season by building a better work-out regimen that I'll stick to through the Summer months). I also agree that the 3 hour ski day (while "pushing" hard with focus) is my normal limit before things really start going downhill (pun intended ).

[skijim13]

I find that after about four hours that no matter how hard I train for it my turn starts to break down. This weekend in crud conditions you can see how efficient PMTS really is those conditions, but after four hours each day you could feel soreness in the muscles that help keep the feet and legs together. Glad to be back at work resting my legs. Both my wife and I hit the gym five days a week and ski about three days each week. We rollerblade, bike, and hike once ski season is over, and still start to run out of steam after about four hours.