The Fallacy of the Full Ski Day

[Skiasaurus Rex]

This seems true for any sport. Three plus hours of hard exertion is close to pro level in most endeavors. 3.5 hours of hard Mountain biking is the max for my personal enjoyment, and it's usually a sufferfest starting at 3.0 hours. I'll go after 5-6 all day epics throughout the year, and I love those days of limit testing on the rivet, but they are the exception and not the rule.

Tennis is the same, 3 hours of tennis and my knees cry and my strokes get fugly.

Skiing is pretty similar, though, I can stretch the day as long as needed with some pacing and cruising. And, I admit, I like cruising to break up the day, and that is one of the gifts of a gravity sport, there are moments of just easy balancing and not always needing extortion for forward movement. Also, o bigger hills with varied terrain and long vertical I tend to ski an area/ feature, stop and ruminate with my buds about it and then seek out the next bit of interesting pitch and do the same. At 2000ft or more I don't do too many Summit to lift burners after the first hour or so.

Yeah, usually after hour one, I am skiing at my best, and after hour three my turns get a little 'ragged.'

Then again, on most days, this pattern follows the patterns of snow condition. Except on Spring days, The best conditions, in terms of ease of skiing, are at opening and as the day wears on so does the snow. Powder days being the most obvious example of this reality, but it's the same with groomers, etc on most days. So there's the double whammy of increased snow difficulty and fatigue as the ski day wears on. Knowing when enough is enough varies person to person, but everyone succumbs to these twin realities eventually.

Neat Topic, JB: Effects of time on technique and what that means to your ski day.

[BigE]

Racers can handle about 8-10 runs in the course before they begin to degrade and they are much stronger than any of us.

I've found myself make breakthroughs because of being too tired and worn out to continue using an inefficient movement pattern, but that's low level skiing, not running gates. Some clubs do "intensive" SL sessions with 1200+ gates/day.

I wonder why they think such massive amounts of gate training should work? I'd think that injury is a much more likely outcome than improvement.

[jbotti]

I've found myself make breakthroughs because of being too tired and worn out to continue using an inefficient movement pattern

Really? You would be the first in history! Unless you have seen it backed up by video I will say with confidence that your perception was not in alignment with reality.

[Matt]

I've found myself make breakthroughs because of being too tired and worn out to continue using an inefficient movement pattern

Really? You would be the first in history! Unless you have seen it backed up by video I will say with confidence that your perception was not in alignment with reality.

I can see this happening. For example if you are too much aft in your normal skiing. Towards the end of the day you will be tired and may be forced to have a more proper fore-aft balance.

[Matt]

I took all my MA shots towards the end of the day. Now I know what the problem was

[BigE]

I've found myself make breakthroughs because of being too tired and worn out to continue using an inefficient movement pattern

Really? You would be the first in history! Unless you have seen it backed up by video I will say with confidence that your perception was not in alignment with reality.

I can see this happening. For example if you are too much aft in your normal skiing. Towards the end of the day you will be tired and may be forced to have a more proper fore-aft balance.

Bingo!

[Max_501]

In my experience technique degrades with fatigue. A skier that has a tendency to be aft when they are fresh will be significantly more aft when they are tired because they haven't yet learned the proper movements to get forward and the muscles they were using incorrectly are now shot. BTW getting forward is one of the most difficult essentials to learn and there is no way a student is going to learn a difficult movement when you are tired. A much more likely result for this fatigued skier is that they stop flexing to release because their legs are so tired from being aft all day.

[oggy]

Well you guys can consider yourself lucky to get that much time on snow that you can be picky. I get around 20 days a year, and unless visibility is 0, you'll have to pry my on-snow time from my cold, dead hands.

I mean I understand the point you're trying to make, but while I do want to get better at skiing, I'm not really trying to make the Olympics, I just want to have fun!

[Max_501]

I just want to have fun!

Nothing wrong with that! Our point is that you have roughly 4 hours to ski at a high level. After that performance diminishes rapidly.

[polecat]

I feel like I've done some of my better skiing at the end of the day.
.

I would say that runs counter to my experience. It would be interesting to look at video to see if your "feeling" is correct. I have had days where I have had video shot the whole day. Never am I skiing my best at the end of a day of reasonably hard skiing.

.... Our point is that you have roughly 4 hours to ski at a high level. After that performance diminishes rapidly.

You're talking about skiing hard for an extended period. You don't have to ski hard to ski well. (Of course you want to ski well when you're skiing hard.)

I've definitely done some of my better skiing later in the day after I've stopped chasing my speed demon friends around the mountain and calmed down to concentrate on skiing cleanly rather than just fast.

And that's not judged by "feel" of my body or technique or whatever but by edge grip on the snow and my ability to place myself where I want, when I want, at the speed I want on the slope.


pc

[Max_501]

You don't have to ski hard to ski well.

But you do have to work hard to master the movements and if you are using correct PMTS movements all day you will surely be tired before the end of a full day.

I've definitely done some of my better skiing later in the day after I've stopped chasing my speed demon friends around the mountain and calmed down to concentrate on skiing cleanly rather than just fast.

I agree that if you spend the morning skiing like crap you can do better in the afternoon by not skiing like crap. But that isn't what we are talking about here.

And that's not judged by "feel" of my body or technique or whatever but by edge grip on the snow and my ability to place myself where I want, when I want, at the speed I want on the slope.

Everything you just described is more or less based on feel.

[Matt]

I'm coming from a competitive X-country background, and at my current performance level I can ski all day without any problem. I expect that as I manage to involve greater forces that will change.
Partly I think that is also because most resorts in Sweden have quite limited vertical, most are less than 1000 feet.

Regarding the OP, I think it is essential to stop and rest before you have significant lactic buildup. If you fill your legs with lactic acid in each run it is just a matter of time...

[jbotti]

I've definitely done some of my better skiing later in the day after I've stopped chasing my speed demon friends around the mountain and calmed down to concentrate on skiing cleanly rather than just fast.




pc

Most fast skiing is low quality usually involving wider than GS turns and with a lot of straight-lining. So yes if you stop this and start arcing turns your skiing will improve. But "fast" skiing is not hard skiing. It's actually much easier on the body than arcing tight turns with big G forces.

[Max_501]

Some of you are mixing apples and oranges, completely missing the point of this thread.

How much quality, highly focused, high energy ski time do any of us have in us each day. If you look at WC racers who are arguably in the best shape of anyone in the world, they are on snow working hard for maybe 2.5 hours each day, max 3 hours of high energy, highly focused work. I think if you ask any of the top PMTS skiers (Harald, Diana, Jay, Max etc) how many hours they can go full out, in tight high energy turns on piste or off, I doubt any would say more than three hours. I find i max out somewhere between 2.5 and 3 hours if I'm going quite hard and if I go 4-5 hours real hard I won't have a lot in the tank the next day.

[Matt]

Well what I don't get is why "I can ski 2.5 hours quality, highly focused, high energy turn per day" implies "Skiing 2.5 hours per day is the best plan for improvement"

Wouldn't 2.5 hours of drills that do not tax the body followed by 2.5 hours of intensive skiing be better?

Or even better mix it up throughout the day, say half a run of drills and half a run of performance skiing.