"Getting your body down the slope"

[Max_501]

In other words, in the transition, if you draw a line perpendicular to the snow the hips should be over the feet (or slightly ahead of them), no matter how steep the slope is.

PMTS uses a flex to release movement. The steeper the terrain the bigger the flex. Because of this the hips will typically be behind the feet during the transition in steep terrain. We pull the feet back during the transition so we avoid getting aft as we develop the next turn.

Like this:

[Erik]

In response to the original post:

I still have a bit of a tendency to cling on to the 'safety' of the hill

do people still find they have to 'dare' to do something which instinct is telling them not to do?

Instinct directs us to try try restore balance when we feel out of balance. Part of my ongoing challenge with PMTS progression is to train myself to use PMTS Essential movements as the only means by which I establish and maintain balance. The "fear factor" causes skiers to instinctively seek static balance positions rather than the dynamic balance movements. When we are out of balance, instinct tells us to try to slow down or stop. That is one of the problems with the traditional learning progressions - they reinforce the fear, and the "safety" of a static position. The fear factor can cause skiers to stem, stay in the back seat, lose balance or bail out to the inside of the turn, widen stance, etc.

When I was focusing on learning to do the Super Phantoms, I finally came to the point where I could be in balance on one ski, with the ski pointed down the fall line. At first, that was a very uncomfortable, scary feeling. But for the first time, I came to the realization that I was finally keeping up with my skis (by really being forward enough). I came to understand how much I had been holding back my progress by being in the "safety" of the back seat.

[Max_501]

Related thread with detailed info:

Movement of CG Downhill In Transition

[cheesehead]

I think I will get in even more trouble if I try to bring in tts comparisons.
Lets make it simple. The mental aspect is a significant issue for some people some more than others or at different times.

But there have to be differences in how different steepnesses are skied. Yes the basic movements are the same but there are adjustments. It would have to be someone better qualified to say what those adjustments are. From a teaching standpoint it is probably most productive to perfect technique on greener slopes then ramp it up, like Max is saying, rather than have much effort going into the differences when you go steeper.

Back to the mental issue. The best confidence booster for me is good technique. But it is difficult to stay focused on that when unexpected things cause panic

[BigE]

It is relevant that skiers can be classified in various groups, related to skill level. This would be one such attempt.

Novice: Introduced to the movements, must consciously perform them all. Freezes often, low range of movement.

Intermediate: Can perform the movements on 90% of the conditions encountered on 90% of all Blue terrain and all Green terrain. Good range of movement on Green, acceptable on Blue, needs work on Black. Movements are made consciously and often are inadequate on dark Blue/Black terrain.

Advanced: Can perform the movements on 90% of the conditions encountered on on 90% of all Black terrain and all Blue/Green terrain.Good range of movement on Blue,Black, acceptable on Black. Needs to refine movements on Black.

Expert: Can perform the movements in all conditions on all terrain. Correct range of movement at all times all conditions. Movements highly refined.

It's all about "ownership" or mastery of the movement.

[HeluvaSkier]

But there have to be differences in how different steepnesses are skied. Yes the basic movements are the same but there are adjustments. It would have to be someone better qualified to say what those adjustments are. From a teaching standpoint it is probably most productive to perfect technique on greener slopes then ramp it up, like Max is saying, rather than have much effort going into the differences when you go steeper.

Mental issues aside for a moment... What I, Max, HH, and many others who ski at the level you're referencing are saying is that there are no technique adjustments. It really is as simple as "ramp up everything". There are no technical adjustments... just MORE tipping, MORE flexing, MORE CB, MORE CA, and MORE pullback. If you're making technical adjustments (or think they are required), your technical level is lacking. The way to fix it is to work with a coach to diagnose the issue, and then head back to easy terrain and drill it until you've fixed it. This is reiterated by the coaches and expert skiers on this forum as well as in every book, DVD, and YouTube production that HH has compiled.

I think I will get in even more trouble if I try to bring in tts comparisons.
Lets make it simple. The mental aspect is a significant issue for some people some more than others or at different times.
...
Back to the mental issue. The best confidence booster for me is good technique. But it is difficult to stay focused on that when unexpected things cause panic

This comes down to mileage. The more exerience you have, the better you will be at applying your technique. Like HH says in the Performance Free Skiing DVD, every run we are practicing something, and conditions or situations are going to come along that test your resolve. The more you develop where you are comfortable, the stronger you will be when the skiing becomes challenging... in short, you won't panic. This takes a MASSIVE amount of seriously focused training and dedication.

[cheesehead]

Right. And there is a difference between doing MORE of each essential and the tts approach of just push your body down the slope (with side slipping skivoting whatever)
I have pushed o to steeper slopes enough to know that the problem is I am only doing MORE of less than all of the essentials and the part of my brain that is taken up by worrying about slipping falling going too fast would be better occupied by doing more MORES
I have a feeling this might seem like it is sliding into Epic discussion land but I don't think it is that nebulous to talk about how the more experienced skiers handle the mental part

[Max_501]

Right. And there is a difference between doing MORE of each essential

You also need more of everything if you want to ski blue groomers faster or make tighter turns. Doing MORE is what we have been preaching for years! There is no technique difference when you decide to ski something more challenging.

I have a feeling this might seem like it is sliding into Epic discussion land but I don't think it is that nebulous to talk about how the more experienced skiers handle the mental part

We handle the mental part by "mastering the movements". It really is that simple!

[cheesehead]

PMTS uses a flex to release movement. The steeper the terrain the bigger the flex. Because of this the hips will typically be behind the feet during the transition in steep terrain. We pull the feet back during the transition so we avoid getting aft as we develop the next turn.

Ah ha! So there are differences. This is what I was getting after nothing epic-like.
I haven't been able to figure out why you can't just keep your feet back all the time and then you wouldn't need a pullback move. Your explanation helps. Doing a pullback move is something I just have not been able to get happening yet.

[Max_501]

Ah ha! So there are differences

If you ramp up your skiing in terms of speed, turn radius, or pitch you use more of everything as we've said about a million times. This is covered so thoroughly on this forum that I can't fathom how anyone could say this is a difference in technique.

[BigE]

There is no technique difference here between Green and Black. Flexing a lot is flexing a lot everywhere. Since you're not flexing a lot on Black its pretty safe to say that you;re not doing it on Green either. The hips must move behind the feet when you flex, else you're not flexing a lot. Once behind the feet, pulling them back is possible. Obviously, increase the ROM of your flexing on Green first.

An increase in Range of Motion does not change the fundamental technique.

[Matt]

Flexing a lot is flexing a lot everywhere. Since you're not flexing a lot on Black its pretty safe to say that you;re not doing it on Green either.

Well on green you don't need to flex a lot do you?

[go_large_or_go_home]

Flexing a lot is flexing a lot everywhere. Since you're not flexing a lot on Black its pretty safe to say that you;re not doing it on Green either.

EXACTLY.....or any of the other essentials.

The beauty about this system is in it simplicity. The movements don't change from piste to chute, just the application and range. No longer do you have a toolbox to help you blunder down the hill.

Can you flex as much on a green run as you do down the bumps? I can, an very often practice this. Max has been helping me massively with dry land exercise to increase my ROM, which has made huge differences to my movement patterns. The point is, if there is an essential missing/ weak, it will be present even on dry land training....video yourself, it's the only way to find out..a full ROM with each of the essentials is the key to unlocking the tough terrain and with that goes the mental side..

[Matt]

Flexing a lot is flexing a lot everywhere. Since you're not flexing a lot on Black its pretty safe to say that you;re not doing it on Green either.

EXACTLY.....or any of the other essentials.

The beauty about this system is in it simplicity. The movements don't change from piste to chute, just the application and range. No longer do you have a toolbox to help you blunder down the hill.

Can you flex as much on a green run as you do down the bumps? I can, an very often practice this. Max has been helping me massively with dry land exercise to increase my ROM, which has made huge differences to my movement patterns. The point is, if there is an essential missing/ weak, it will be present even on dry land training....video yourself, it's the only way to find out..a full ROM with each of the essentials is the key to unlocking the tough terrain and with that goes the mental side..

It is related to speed. I can flex a lot going slow on a green. But why would I flex as much as when I go fast on black? Only way I can see that flex on green happening is by supporting your weight in transition in a squatted stance. When you have speed you will have "float" and no need to support yourself in transition.

[go_large_or_go_home]

It is related to speed.

I think you'll find its a function of balance...I have seen HH use more CB and CA and achieve more body angles etc than I thought possible, all on a green run.....

I can flex a lot going slow on a green. But why would I flex as much as when I go fast on black?

it was meant as an example of if your movements are blocked on green (or indeed a slant board), how can you expect them to be there on black - or whatever you you choose/classify to ski on.

Only way I can see that flex on green happening is by supporting your weight in transition in a squatted stance. When you have speed you will have "float" and no need to support yourself in transition.

The movements are still the same...therefore your ROM should be the same. The only difference is how much you choose to apply. If you can only do it with speed, then you don't truly own the movement.