Just for fun. Short turn series

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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby SkierSynergy » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:22 pm

A.L.E wrote:I can watch that over and over and have been!!!!

The arc starts high but the hook up after the fall line is very cool. Skis are finishing virtually perpendicular to the fall line but done so tightly & smoothly!!

Something to aspire to during my upcoming 10 days in Big Sky. Just have to get the 26hr journey done first next Friday.

Tell me Jay, what areas are you focusing on in particular during a run of those short turns?


The hook under at the end of the turn comes from holding the tipping longer. This brings the skis more across the falline. The quickness with which that happens comes from increasing the tipping/angles through the turn -- also being able to relax the inside leg/legs more as you go through the turn. However, if you get this, you will finish more across the fall line which makes releasing more difficult. Therefore your release game has to be better if the connection from turn to turn is going to be smooth. Most of these things, I don't have to consciously focus on.

However, in order for this type of finish to work, you have to the counteraction to support the tipping. Therefore, in these turns I was specifically thinking about my counter action.

In a short turn with hook, the skis generate a lot of torque that is transmitted up your body and that torque tries to make the upper body rotate with the skis. If the body goes with the torque, the skis then lose grip and everything breaks down. You have to actively rotate against that torque right from the hip and into the upper body.

So, I was focusing on making my counteraction as strong as possible, and as early as possible after I start getting grip. I was also trying to hold the old turn counteracting through the release until I get grip. Everything, including how the poles are held/used and the pole plant is done has to support counteracting. I didn't always get it, but . . . that was my focus.

It's funny that you asked the question because just last night I had picked up an old copy of Stein Erikson's 1966 Come Ski with Me. In response to a question about how to make a carved turn, he said: "You will carve your turn instead of slipping, if you keep your downhill shoulder [for us, then outside shoulder] back and keep your body angulated. If in the turn, your downhill shoulder comes around too far and too fast, you will pull the hip with you, you will over rotate and side slip instead of carve."

Hmmmmm, sounds like something to pay attention to. Additionally, for us now days, when tipped on edge, our skis generate a lot of torque pulling the body to start rotating. Once it starts going the game is over. So, anytime the skis are engaged, there has to be definite counteracting without hesitation.
Last edited by SkierSynergy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby A.L.E » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:05 pm

Wonderful explanation, thank you!! :D
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby MonsterMan » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:06 pm

Nice enough turns Jay. I think your counter balance on turns to the left is a bit lazy at times though.

If you want, I'll ski a few runs with you Monday week and we can iron that out.

Hang on a minute! why aren't you at 'Tux???


:-O
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby BigE » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:28 am

Jay,

How long are your poles? And how tall are you? Seems my 130 is short for 6'2".
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby skifastDDS » Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:45 pm

BigE wrote:Jay,

How long are your poles? And how tall are you? Seems my 130 is short for 6'2".


I'm 6'3 and I use 130cm poles with a lot of lift on my skis. I've never found them short.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:22 pm

BigE, remember that planting may occur as the legs are flexing.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby Ihamilton » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:02 pm

Jay, are you still in Dodge boots?
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby Max_501 » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:10 pm

Ihamilton wrote:Jay, are you still in Dodge boots?


Yes he is.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby SkierSynergy » Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:34 pm

Ihamilton wrote:Jay, are you still in Dodge boots?


I’m still on the boots and I like them A LOT. However, I spent some time dialing them in. I use a Nordica foam liner, I have a 2 mm heel lift under my back plate, I have a modified piece from a head boot on the rear lip (makes the back a bit higher, wider and rounder; also distributes the pressure better and acts as a small forward lean spoiler), and I have a plastic plate from an old head boot on the front of the boot. Now, it feels like a head boot in how my ankle works, how the flex feels, and how the ski cuts back under, but it continues to have all of the dodge boot advantages. I use an insert in the boot for warmer weather that reduces the volume on the boot all around. It’s a 1.5 mm layer of ABS poured into the boot mold and then can be put into the boot and cut ground. Dodge guys experimented with it to use for fitting, but they don’t sell them. I also made a thin rubber gasket that takes care of any leak issues in rain/summer snow. They work great now. I’m staying with them. I just can’t go back and lose the advantages.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby BigE » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:14 am

Max_501 wrote:BigE, remember that planting may occur as the legs are flexing.


Thanks Max!

It's just when I see Harald and Jay and their poles, they look very long. Especially Harald's for his height. Their plant is a tap, which is downhill of the feet, and since it looks quite far downhill, it seems that the poles have become longer than usual to accomodate.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:46 am

BigE wrote:It's just when I see Harald and Jay and their poles, they look very long. Especially Harald's for his height. Their plant is a tap, which is downhill of the feet, and since it looks quite far downhill, it seems that the poles have become longer than usual to accomodate.


Poles may look longer or shorter depending on the position of the body and the snow the skier is in. The key is to find a length that works for the conditions you ski in. HH and Jay ski a lot of powder so they may use a longer pole and then adjust for groomed runs by moving the tap farther down the hill.

Image

Image
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby BigE » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:16 am

Ah right Powder. I forget that such snow exists.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby go_large_or_go_home » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:22 pm

Max_501 wrote:
BigE wrote:It's just when I see Harald and Jay and their poles, they look very long. Especially Harald's for his height. Their plant is a tap, which is downhill of the feet, and since it looks quite far downhill, it seems that the poles have become longer than usual to accomodate.


Poles may look longer or shorter depending on the position of the body and the snow the skier is in. The key is to find a length that works for the conditions you ski in. HH and Jay ski a lot of powder so they may use a longer pole and then adjust for groomed runs by moving the tap farther down the hill.

Image

Image


As a guide, what length do you use? Is it still the idea that you grab the pole (upside down) under the basket and your forearm should be parallel to the ground with a 90deg bend at the elbow? For me, I use 125cm (50") on the snow, but drop it to 120cm(48") for plastic...

I have adjustable poles and often thought about shortening the length for bumps etc, but never got around to it....too busy changing from blasting around to doing drills etc as the snow/slope dictates...

I am 5"11...
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby Max_501 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:27 pm

I have adj and will change if the terrain is a mismatch. For example, shorter poles and deep snow is a crappy combo. Starting point is the old upside down pole method.
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Re: Just for fun. Short turn series

Postby arothafel » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:47 am

Jay....

Do you still fit boots for clients?

I, too, love my Dodge boots, BUT... the stock liner fabric has come loose and creates all kinds of issues.

I purchased some new liners from Dodge, but they were not the same (too narrow) so they didn't work at all.

So, if you do this kind of work, maybe I should take a drive up to Oregon this summer....
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