Is skiing about adrenaline only?

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Is skiing about adrenaline only?

Postby piggyslayer » Thu Jan 01, 2004 8:25 am

I?m not nor do I want to be on the ?extreme? beat. Is skiing about dropping from Corbet?s in Jackson Hole or skiing an 70-80 degree descends only?
Can you call yourself an expert skier if you do not want to do that? I hope the answer is yes.

I have seen Mr. T (who?s posts are like reading and identify with most of the time) say
?Did you ski Delirium Dive at Sunshine Village? Did you ski Corbet's Couloir or the Alta chutes in Jackson Hole? Did you ski Couloir Extreme at Blackcomb? No? So, how come you are so happy for your PMTS if you cannot use it to conquer the best in-bound runs out there? Something is fishy here....?

Does everyone except me (and my wife the ?chicken? ? she picked up this name not me) feels this way. I feel like the sport is changing, it is not so much about making turns as it is about risking your life doing the extreme thing.

Sure I like to ski steep, on occasions quite steep (say Snowbird steep) and I understand that is it is quite pleasant experience, but I love other aspects more and more (maybe I am getting old). I love the challenge of skiing green terrain (yes challenge is not a typo). It is so much harder to do a good turn or almost any drill with slow speed on a green slope.
I love a thrill to ski down a blue/dark blue run when moguls are starting to form and each float can be done completely air-born. I love the technical things that can be done on any slope.

I will not jump from cliffs (maybe from a small cornice once or twice). I will not ski extreme steeps if they long. Even if I am comfortable with my technique I can make an error. (I can walk quite well, however I would not walk on a foot wide ledge suspended from a skyscraper, I would do that on the floor).

Using Mr. T language the Expected Value of pleasure is low for me (even if the task is simple and probability of doing it right is high, I view being dead as very unpleasant event and this lowers the expected value quite a bit).

Am I the only one who thinks this way?

piggyslayer
Piggy Slayer
let the piggy breathe
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more to skiing

Postby h.harb » Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:17 pm

Hi Pigslayer,

One thing we must keep in mind, everyone?s motivation for skiing is different. You don?t have to want to ski double black diamonds to feel you are having fun or that you are an expert skier. I have just as much respect for someone who wants to be proficient on Blues and Blacks, as I do for someone who wants to race on the World Cup. What the Ski Magazines are portraying as skiing these days is ridicules and a long way from the market that either wants to ski or is skiing. In fact, the Skiing Magazines maybe discouraging the skiing market by filling their magazines with unlikely places to ski and portraying jumps that only well trained professionals should be attempting. Clearly the regular skier (ninety five percent of the population) isn?t going to jump off cliffs and ski narrow steeps. Ninety percent of all skiers do not seek that experience.

Those antics are only for the well trained and young. And the ski industry and the magazines are failing to develop even that skier market. When a young beginning skier goes for a ski lesson at a regular ski school they are so turned off by the experience they run right to the snowboarding meeting place that afternoon, that?s if they even stick around for the whole ski lesson. The ski industry?s own survey shows that only one of every ten beginners turns into an enthusiast.

Where and how does the first lesson experience relate to the pictures in the ski magazines? It doesn?t!!! People ask why skiing isn?t growing and snowboarding is, the answer is; traditional ski lessons are turning skiers off, especially young people.

Tell a young skier between the ages of eight and fifteen that they have to learn a wedge (look stupid for about a year and go through the wedge Christie ordeal after that) and than in maybe two years, they might ski off piste or jump off a small cornice, they will respond by saying ?sayonara?, see you at the Snowboard School, where it takes about one day to look like you fit with the rest of the snowboarders sitting on the slopes.

Skiing and ski teaching have a huge image problem and no one is dealing with it. Show me one area that has innovative ideas to keep young people wanting to learn skiing. It?s the same old ski lesson with the same old wedge beginning, boring!!!! We at Harb Ski Systems have plenty of solutions, (but no one is asking the questions) and the answers are not only in ?Direct Parallel? but they begin with Direct Parallel.

Now, about skiing like they portray in the magazines, don?t be dismayed if you don?t have a huge ambition or motivation to jump off forty foot cliffs or ski the super steep narrow couloirs. Just as football players train their whole lives for pro teams and boxers train all year round, for decades, to withstand the pounding, the skiers in the photos are professionals, they train for years and decades to do what they do. Most spend time on the racing or professional bump circuits first. With what they do today while in the air, these athletes also train gymnastics and practice jumping all summer into foam pits or lakes. This is a young man?s game and it takes real commitment to do it right. Any one who thinks they can just go out and jump into a couloir or huck off a cliff is crazy. I find the magazines totally irresponsible by portraying skiing the way they do. Those professional skiers make it look like anyone could go out and try their stunts. Many youngsters with little training, but with plenty of gusts and testosterone will get seriously injured trying.


My son and his friends started to teach themselves inverted aerials a few seasons ago. I put a stop it and told them unless they have the background and proper training they were not to build jumps and try inverted jumps on snow. I suggested they begin training during the summer, by jumping into ponds, from trampolines, that?s the way to get started. Other options include joining gymnastic classes.

At our all mountain camps we take it very slowly and introduce skiers to some of these experiences, but only when they are ready. We introduce our skiers to proper techniques in safe places; if we jump, it is on very small jumps and we ski on very open snow fields, at first. I am no different, I must build up gradually to jumping and skiing extreme, every season. I begin with small cornices and jumps and build slowly until I reintroduce myself to the take off and landing techniques. It also takes me a few days every year to ski the very steep narrow runs with absolute confidence.

If I ski Big Sky or Kicking Horse I take a few days to get my steep approach mentality back into focus. There is so much more to be enjoyed on a mountain, before you need to put your limps in peril to experience the thrill of skiing.

Live long and ski forever
h.harb
 

Postby Mr. T » Fri Jan 02, 2004 5:09 am

I am not about jumping off cliffs or skiing real colouirs. Corbet's isn't a couloir, Extreme Couloir isn't either, and neither is Delirium Dive. Real
couloirs = you fall you get either seriously injured or you even die.

Delirium Dive can be attempted even by a "no-good" like myself.

I wish I could be a new Doug Coombs, but I am not. That's the reality and I accepted it. But when I ski that's what I dream of. My true dream is actually not to ski those runs, but to attempt a first descent from K2 after climbing it without oxygen. My ski hero is not Ingemar Stenmark, or Gustav Thoeni, or Franz Klammer, or Alberto Tomba, or Bode Miller. My true hero is Hans Kammerlander of Italy (yes, that part of Italy that speaks German) who climbed almost all 8,000meters and was the first to attempt a proper descent from Mt. Everest and K2. And I bet that none of
you has ever heard of this guy. Davo Karnicar completed the descent from Mt. Everest and got all the glory. Hans did years before him, but had
to take off his skis and climb down for a few hundred of yards for lack of
snow and get no acknowledgement. It does not happen to PMTS only!

To my skiing is adventure, not just taking risks and die for it. I want to live and live long enough to have enough adventures to remember when I am old.

But, if I do not manage to ski at least double black diamonds which are
not real couloirs, I must be honest and admit that I will feel like I failed
as far as skiing is concerned. That's is why I hope that at Big Sky we will
at least visit some runs on top of Lone Mountain.
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Postby -- SCSA » Fri Jan 02, 2004 10:22 pm

No Piggy, skiing is about skills and safety. If some want to jump off of cliffs, that's their thing and gawd bless 'em.

But I don't think that's what skiing is all about. In my mind skiing is about learning the right skills. Then being safe.

Unfortunately, not as many as we'd like pay attention to skills. Like today, I watched this skier come down Forever. You know the type, arms out to the side -- kind of a racer wanna be look. They look like they're going down the hill like a friggin airplane!

Anyway, the guy biffed it bad. It was all because of his lack of skills even though that same skier would probably tell you "Oh, I"m an expert." I could see the fall coming. His skis were too far apart to be skiing the chop and he was back. When he would make a turn, his ski would come off the snow. When the guy got up, he was like, "Yeah!" Then he skied off, probably to his next nose dive. But like I say, he'd probably tell you how good he was and how much he was rippin.

I know whenever I talk to someone and they're like, "Dude, I rip." I'm just thinking to myself, this he/she/it is full of it.

Cheers,
-- SCSA
 

Postby chicken » Fri Jan 02, 2004 10:40 pm

I believe skiing is about having fun - no matter how ridiculous or pitiful it looks to anyone around - as long as it does not get in the way of other people's fun. That is, let them take as many nose-dives as their little hearts desire, as long as they do not put others in jepardy. Alas, the reckless "I am rippin'" attitude usually does not include consideration for others around you, so this is where my theory breaks.

I am a quite capable skier (or so others say) who has little faith in my skills. To me fun is skiing slopes that do not scare me, but let me push my skills. But there are precious few of those. Either I get spooked because I - or someone else - pressured me to venture the trails that are too adrenalibe-pumping for my liking, or I have a sense of underachievement because I played it safe and not tried something challneging enough. I envy some friends of mine who would not venture beyond green slopes but leave the mountain at 5 pm full of smiles.

I think the key -as with everything else in life - is to start liking what you are, and be happy with that. Any person worth his "sapient" label will eventually strive for imporovement, but the journey to this improvemnt will be so much more enjoyable.
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Is skiing about adrenaline only?

Postby Bluey » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:44 am

I'm with Piggy and Chicken.......fun comes in many forms for me......I enjoy the adrenaline buzz from skiing; I enjoy the challenge of the more demanding slopes/conditions; I enjoy skiing with a group ( family etc ) and sharing the experiences.
I do not enjoy putting my body into any situation which is unnecessarily risky.
Risks can be calculated and the necessary safety margin built it.
I ski for fun and because I also enjoy the sense of accomplishment that comes from improving my skill levels.....at my pace

I'm not the type to ski a run just 'cause others are going to ski it.
My attitude is that if others don't like that then that's their problem.......so I don't care what the magazines etc promote, I pick and choose what I want to do and I leave it to others to do the same.
However, following from another thread about "skier responsibilty code"..... I would ask that gaggle of idiots out there who think they own the slopes to go and take a long hard look at themselves in the Hall of Mirrors and give me and other like minded skiers the same respect by sharing the slopes in a responsible manner......and while I'm on the subject.... I think the resort owners and managers need to take their social and moral responsibiltiy for skier safety more seriously....more action and less hiding behind legal disclaimers.


Bluey



Last one down's a dirty snowball !!
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The skiing press and the soul of skiing

Postby Guest » Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:52 am

An interesting discussion especially to me as I've often wondered what I have in common with many of the people involved in alpine skiing! I spend much of my time when not working hiking, snowshoeing, running with people who generally love the outdoors as much as I do.

And then I open the covers of the (decreasing number of) skiing magazines that sit unread on the store shelves at newsagents, supermarkets etc. I rarely purchase them. Usually the first page I read is full of "dude", "big air", "huckster"... The pictures I've all seen before. I did purchase a Powder Gear Guide recently but can't say I learnt anything from it. There is far more information available at this site than I could ever glean from the paper press. Frankly, reading such magazines I feel they insult the reader and skiings heritage in general. No wonder there are ever fewer of them. The skiers I meet, young and old are not the idiots these magazines write for and could benefit tremendously from the latest ideas on alignment, technique, great places to ski as well as the stuff we rarely hear such as on skiings history. What these magazines need is CONTENT. Think of it this way - if you had never skied before and read a ski magazine from cover to cover what would YOU think skiing was all about?

As to why I ski, it's a very personal thing but I think it is all about turning for me. The sensation one has when the skis really bite and you feel that accelaration. The fresh air and fun with friends is a bonus too. But I can fully understand those that want to challenge themselves beyond good technique. Each to his own. I've no ambitions to jump and if my technique ever warranted it I'd probably prefer to run the gates or spend some time in the backcountry. But each to his own.

Where I do have strong feelings is that I think the soul of skiing is being lost to people and organisations that care little for its past or future. I'm talking about the huge developers of ski real estate who also happen to operate ski hills (presumably to sell real estate). I enjoy skiing some of these hills but worry that the new generation of skiers cannot afford to. When I started it was on a local ski hill where prices were reasonable. The skiers that learn in such places are the skiers that later frequent the major resorts. I also wonder what will happen to the large resorts when the developers are finished selling real estate. Can those massive operations really sustain themselves on the sale of lift tickets alone? I somehow doubt it. But one thing is for sure, you'll be hard pressed to find discussions on topics like this in the skiing press!

Cheers!
Mike
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