Pro Racer Phantom Move

[Max]

Its been stated in another thread that many pro racers use a lift and tilt.

I'm curious about this pro racer phantom move. Do you guys think they have been taught to do it that way, or is the outcome of many years of training that they have figured out that the best way to initiate a strong turn is by the phantom move?

[jclayton]

In many cases it is trial and error . Some racers I have known are not even aware of it . The Deslaurier brothers , and many others , use it demonstrably in powder in their many videos . In the PMTS video n? 1 it is also very clear .

Now , I gather , it is being consciously taught .

[Joseph]

The Deslauriers learned the phantom move from harald. He skied with them a lot during the 90's when they were all ski testers together. They did learn it directly from him. Not all racers did though, obviously. Harald wasn't the first to lift and tip, just the first to teach it to skiers on a broad scale. Some are getting taught how nowadays--if they have a really good coach. Unfortunately most are being taught to stand on both skis in a wide stance. At the top levels of racing the best athletes do what it takes to keep the outside ski carving. A lot of the time when the inside ski gets lifted, the objective for the skier is to get more pressure on the stance ski so that it has more edge bite. Then the skier has to decide what to do with the leg that's in the air. The really good racers find out real fast what they need to do with that inside foot to get their hips to move inside the turn. You see this from Pro racers because if they didn't know how to do it--either from coaching or self discovery--they wouldn't be pro racers. Most probably discover this move only because most race coaches don't know enough to teach it.

[Max]

That would certainly explain why my kids haven't "officially" learned it from their coaches (they have been in two different racing programs). Both programs teach a wide stance. One wanted a 60/40 weight split, the other 100% of weight on stance leg. Neither has mentioned a tilt of the free foot.

[TiehackBurger]

What famous racer said this this week?

"Bode talks about liking to slide a little above the turn, and people say I go arc to arc. That might be true ? maybe more so than other guys. But you gotta be able to skid it when you need to skid it."

When he's got to skid it, how does he do it?

[Joseph]

He flattens out the edge angle of the stance ski by backing of on eversion of the ankle inside the boot. If someone knows how to use their feet properly, they can skid turns all day without using rotary. You didn't think that our clients in their 40's--70's in our green and blue camps carved around all day did you?

Joseph

[TiehackBurger]

Thanks for confusing the hell out of me then Joseph. I admit that I now have no idea what you guys are talking about-hell maybe I ski the PMTS way and don't even know it.

For the record though, I have read Mr. Deslauriers categorical denial that he learned the phantom move from HH.

[Biowolf]

I would like to post a picture here. Can anybody tell me how to do it ?

[Kirtland]

The first mention I saw of a move similiar to the lift and tilt, was in an article between 1972 and 1975 by Sylvian Sudan the Extreme skier. His explanation for how to make the transition from one turn to the next. was to lift the down hill foot and move the inside knee down hill immediately followed by extending your uphill leg, which flattened your skis and moved your center of mass accross your skis allowing them to turn underneath you. He dubbed it the bicycle turn. The intent was the same but, I don't think it is was as effective a description as lift and tilt, to accomplish the same goal. i.e. making a simple efficient turn in balance. Remember this was on equipment that was much different than today and to explain the technique he used to ski slopes greater than 45 degrees.