Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

[HeluvaSkier]

Note - like Harald I lift my inside ski often and in nearly all conditions.

Same here, nothing is more effective than a phantom move.

[h.harb]

I rarely weight my inside ski after transition, (on the new edges) unless I'm late in the bumps or in a GS race course, using a weighted release. A two footed release is ok, but as soon as you are over on the other edges, the weight should come off the inside ski. Remember, if you use that inside ski as an out rigger, you can't increase edge angles without leaning. If you watched Bode in the OLYi GS it was as ugly as I've ever seen. He doesn't tip and he uses his inside ski as an outrider. He's a total hip dumper. Ttipping is a town in China, as far as Bode is concerned. That is what you lose if you forget slalom technique.

Fenninger really showed it in the GS the second run she almost caught Maze. So compact, no extension and total tipping to get from one edge to the other. Schiff was extending and her feet were too far apart, lost the outside ski as a result. Maze skied the best I've seen her ski all year.Best stance, closer feet than the rest except Fenninger and her boot set us was way better, than even two weeks ago. I guess the new coach paid off.

[Basil j]

Sorry, Maybe I did not explain this too well so I will try again. I l aways try to use the phantom move on every turn, but what jack was seeing was that I was lifting, tipping and pulling back, in a 3 step move that was getting me on edge a hair late in the turn. He confirmed there was nothing really bad with it, but suggested that by keeping my inside tip on the snow, But unweighted, and making the pullback of my inside foot occur earlier, that I would get on edge earlier, which is what the end result was. It was almost like turning a 3 step movement into one continuos move. It's kind of hard to explain. I thing the reason we did weighted release truns was to get me a little more forward and get my inside hip into the the start of the turn earlier? I don't know but it worked nicely and I have never skied as well as I have the last 2 days. It is sometimes tough to verbalize these movements for me since many of them are very subtle.By doing what he suggested, my weight was much more solidly on my outside ski earlier in the turn and I could stay flexed and low to the snow without any effort. The goal was to make the ski movements flowing and continous instead of fragmented, however sublte the fragmented movements were. He has a good eye and caught all of my concerns within two runs without me even telling him what I felt I was struggling with.

[CO_Steve]

I rarely weight my inside ski after transition,

So this has puzzled me for a while. How do you leave railroad tracks with no weight on the inside ski?

[Max_501]

I rarely weight my inside ski after transition,

So this has puzzled me for a while. How do you leave railroad tracks with no weight on the inside ski?

Harald doesn't actively weight the inside ski but that ski will still end up with some weight as the arc develops. This has been discussed many times. The key to strong carving is limiting weight on the inside ski. If you want to eliminate it you have to do this:

[jbotti]

Great shot in that it shows agressive tipping with the lifting. Lifting wthout tipping is not worth much.

[jclayton]

Is that Rocca ?

[h.harb]

First, this has become like an Epic Forum discussion. So I'm not pleased with the way it's going. Who is JMdane?

Self evaluation is the worst way to know you are doing something right. It can be just totally wrong but feel great. If you want legitimate feedback about what you are doing and did, send video. As with anyone who has observed my videos, you know, I don't ski in sequences. But I move sequentially. I learned to make it look simultaneous by practicing sequential movements. So if you have ever seen me ski, you know the objective or the intent is not to be step by step sequential in performance. However to learn proper movements many skiers need to break it down and build on steps. If you want to integrate the step by step of a correct Phantom moves, with pull back, don't go to the Weighted release, it's a totally different movement. It's used to cure a step or push off. I use a Phantom Move lift and tip, 90 percent of the time and 95 percent of the turns in my videos. It's well disguised, but it's there. Bantering about how well you skied and how great a difference it made is only in your mind. Which is fine, but if you really want to know if you are doing the right thing, put up video. This isn't the Epic forum where everyone tells you how great they ski and then, when and if they put up video, they suck.

[h.harb]

There is a difference between leaning in and balancing on the outside ski. I leave 2 tracks, but still ski 90 to 10 ratios of outside to inside ski weighting. Even if I am lifting or flexing the inside leg and ski, the movement is learned from the Phantom lift and tilt, 100 percent weight shift to the outside ski. If you do this in really fast, short, arced turns, getting the weight off the inside ski can almost not be done quick enough so that the inside track vanishes. However you will never get to the end result, by trying to leave 2 tracks, by weighting the inside ski. You have to learn to do it with balance exclusively on the outside ski first, because you have to have enough CB and CA. And you will not know you have developed this well enough if you starting by weighting the inside ski. It's about learning to balance cleanly, the rest is rubbish. This is something Ted Ligety can't do in slalom. He loses his balance to the inside foot all the time. Why, because he can't CB well enough or fast enough for each slalom turn. He needs to get back to basics. And if Ted needs to get back to basics, where does that leave the rest of us?

[Jjmdane]

The reason I suggested Basil j use more of a phantom turn rather always lifting the inside ski was to get him to experience the difference in feel between the two types of turns. I am definitely an advocate of lifting the inside ski but it is not something I use all the time. Basil j was defaulting to it exclusively and I just wanted to give him a different perspective so he could make a conscious decision on which method he wanted to employ. By not defaulting to it at all times I think it makes him a more well-rounded PMTS skier. When he tipped his inside ski and kept it on the snow he seem to get an earlier edge engagement which made his terms more effective for the type of snow we were on, in my opinion.

[Max_501]

The reason I suggested Basil j use more of a phantom turn rather always lifting the inside ski was to get him to experience the difference in feel between the two types of turns.

Keep in mind that lifting the inside ski is part of the text book phantom turn.

Basil j was defaulting to it exclusively

Which is what most developing PMTS students should be doing. In the MA forum we often tell students to go back to the phantom (lift, tip, pullback of the inside foot) because they haven't mastered outside ski balance.

When he tipped his inside ski and kept it on the snow he seem to get an earlier edge engagement which made his terms more effective for the type of snow we were on, in my opinion.

It sounds like you were addressing a symptom rather than the cause. Lifting is the fastest way to earlier edge engagement. Done correctly it's nearly instant.

[JohnMoore]

The reason I suggested Basil j use more of a phantom turn rather always lifting the inside ski was to get him to experience the difference in feel between the two types of turns. I am definitely an advocate of lifting the inside ski but it is not something I use all the time. Basil j was defaulting to it exclusively and I just wanted to give him a different perspective so he could make a conscious decision on which method he wanted to employ. By not defaulting to it at all times I think it makes him a more well-rounded PMTS skier. When he tipped his inside ski and kept it on the snow he seem to get an earlier edge engagement which made his terms more effective for the type of snow we were on, in my opinion.

Am I right in thinking that what you're talking about here is simply lightening the inside ski rather than lifting it off the snow? I think some people might be interpreting what you're saying as actively keeping weight on the inside ski, which is something quite different.

[Jjmdane]

What I mistakenly did not mention was that Basil j did not seem to have enough of a tip down bias when he lifted his ski and this compromised the effect that he was trying to have. In retrospect I should have had him just lift the tail of the ski while tipping to get across the point I was trying to make. I wanted him to experience early tip engagement at the top of the turn.

[h.harb]

That's why we have accredited PMTS instructors. Stick with the books and videos; interpreting the PMTS movements with a misunderstanding of the system and without total understanding of the consequences, is no better than taking a mixed PSIA lesson with a few PMTS tidbits thrown in. The answer was simple from the beginning, tipping is part of releasing and lifting should never be a stand alone movement in connected turns, it's all one movement, the most important one in PMTS. Funny how people miss this critical, most repeated advice on this forum and in my publications, for every skiing situation. For example, Counter Acting is useless without tipping. Flexing without tipping is also useless and also very common is skiers. I wouldn't practice surgery without a doctor's certificate, funny how anyone thinks they can give ski advice?

[sujo]

This year I switched from 176, 16.7 meter radius GS cheater ski to 183, 23+ meter radius Fischer GS ski. I had the Phantom Move down pretty good on the 176 but struggled with the 23 meter skis. Once I focused on tipping, the Phantom Move came back better than before and connected short radius turns are more consistent than before. Pull back of the inside ski is required on the Fischers as they want to take off if you get behind them but once you tip more and pull back they turn easily.