Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

[Max_501]

Every instructor had a different perspective, analysis and advice. Nothing consistent to build on and make me want to come back. When I struggle with my skiing, I can usually attribute it to being out of balance at some point in the run.

That makes me think of a something I've heard many times from my non PMTS skiing friends. When they are having a bad day they usually have no idea why, but are desperately trying to capture whatever trick they did the last time things felt right. With PMTS I don't say or think "Man I suck today, I don't know what I'm missing but hopefully I'll find it tomorrow!". If I'm getting back I know I'm lazy with pullback. If I'm falling to the inside I know its CB. If I can't rip the crud its lack of CA. And I can fix it with just a run or two of drills.

[h.harb]

Max, brilliant insight into how skiing works. TTS is bull shit, PMTS has answers.

[Ken]

If I'm getting back I know I'm lazy with pullback. If I'm falling to the inside I know its CB. If I can't rip the crud its lack of CA. And I can fix it with just a run or two of drills.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. The basic, foundation, correct PMTS movements work every time IF I do them.

[HighAngles]

Honestly Max,
I was surfing the web last winter and I saw some of Harald's Instructional Video clips and I was blown away by not only how beautiful a skier he is, but by the fact that he skis like that in his 60's. I am 53 next month, and although I am extremely fit, I am not delusional to the fact that at some point my body will start to let me down. Skiing is my passion and I want to continue to improve and ski well into my 60's as well as contribute to the development of my kids skiing. I had my kids late in life and want to be active with them and involved in their sports when they are in their teens and twenties. Oh, and I wanted to ski like Harald Harb! (or at least learn his system and give it my best shot!!!)
I always felt that my skiing was decent, but for the amount of time I spend on the snow, I always felt that I should be better. I feel like I have wasted many days ingraining inefficient movements into muscle memory.
Traditional instruction often left me confused, unimpressed and not really leading to any major improvements in my skiing. Every instructor had a different perspective, analysis and advice. Nothing consistent to build on and make me want to come back. When I struggle with my skiing, I can usually attribute it to being out of balance at some point in the run.
PMTS focuses on Balance & efficient movements. It is clear & concise and the more I read and watch the more sense it makes. Each movement provides an interconnected piece, building from a foundation from the feet up.
That is what has brought me here to this awesome forum, full of passionate skiers all sharing the same goal of becoming better skiers utilizing the PMTS system.
You asked

Excellent post - I could have written this myself. Many of us are here for the exact same reasons with very similar stories.

[Basil j]

Just received the Green/Blue Instructor manual. Good stuff. The video that comes with it looks a little dated, but none the less, the movements and progression is clear. It is obviously more suited for beginning skiers, but for someone who is new to PMTS, the materials break the system down nicely. I particularly like the shuffle step, tip to step, and Phantom drag. These will help my kids get more comfortable moving with a narrower stance. I notice particularly with the young boys in my sons group that the wedge gets them comfortable with a wide stance, but when you try to get them to narrow it up, they are off balance and not stable, and will default back to wedge movements and a wide platform.
Ski school starts this weekend, so I will be curious to see what the groups will be focusing on. My work with them starts after lunch on the bunny slopes.

[Max_501]

The video that comes with it looks a little dated, but none the less, the movements and progression is clear. It is obviously more suited for beginning skiers, but for someone who is new to PMTS, the materials break the system down nicely.

I've used some of those introductory drills with fairly advanced TTS skiers that still have a tiny wedge entry on every turn. Sometimes you have to go back to step 1 when the habitual movements dominate to the point of blocking PMTS fundamentals. The key to success is understanding that PMTS is fundamentally different than the common TTS progressions.

[h.harb]

Max501 post, "Like". And right on target.

HH says:
Nothing in PMTS movements and direction is dated, only time is dated. The time for those that are not using PMTS, really shows how dated they are.

[skijim13]

My wife and I just got back from the Pro Jam in Killington, VT. We thought it would be a good way to meet some other ski instructors from the East Coast and maintain our PSIA certification. We both have been studying PMTS since the beginning of last season but wanted to "test" the PSIA and see what they had to offer. In simple terms, "not much". We were in a group of 10 fellow ski instructors with a PSIA Examiner. It was immediately apparent that the other instructors didn't know how to use their edges although the examiner did. I was hoping he would emphasize on edging but all he kept referencing was twisting the legs and smearing the skis for speed control. One student that I partnered up with was having major problems with his fore/aft balance. I showed him how to pull his free foot back to help maintain his fore/aft balance instead of pushing against the front of his ski boots (as told by the examiner) and he immediately had better form, control and was very thankful for the help. The examiner commented that my feet were too close together during regular skiing yet he skied with his feet close together and when we went into the steeps and ungroomed, he told everyone to pull their feet closer together. There was very unclear direction from the examiner which left most of us scratching our heads wondering what he was talking about and what he wanted. My wife and I looked at each other several times with the thoughts running through our heads, "That's not what Harold says." At one point he pulled out a picture of Ted Ligety and commented how he was a great racer and that his form was perfect but never gave insight as to what we should do to model this image. The funny thing is that once we were home and read through our mail, there was an article in the January Ski Magazine about Ted Ligety. The is a clip that says "Tip the ski in edge; sidecut and pressure will combine to bend it into the arc like this. Skidding has its place for speed control, but skis that are carving are fast."

The highlight of our trip and there was one, was the opportunity to meet and ski with Todd who has been at multiple PMTS camps. He has worked with Diana and Harold one on one. We learned more from him then we learned the whole week at Pro Jam. That was the "greatest" experience.

[h.harb]

As I was saying, nothing in PMTS is dated, only the ones not using it show their age. Nothing has changed since I was in PSIA, literally it's as bad as ever. Our students, readers and DVD viewers, know more about skiing than PSIA examiners.

[Max_501]

It was immediately apparent that the other instructors didn't know how to use their edges although the examiner did.

In what way was the examiner using the edges?

[cheesehead]

I notice particularly with the young boys in my sons group that the wedge gets them comfortable with a wide stance, but when you try to get them to narrow it up, they are off balance and not stable, and will default back to wedge movements and a wide platform.
.

Being a novice skier, the thing that really made this all work was realizing how much force you have to use to tip with that inside ski. You have to move your whole body with just that tipping motion. If you put your hand on the child's knee and have him push his knee outwards (laterally) while you create resistance to it they will see what kind of force you are talking about. Another approach to that concept is the one outlined in ACBES 2, I think, where the stationary skier tries to pull the skis together and the instructor gives opposite resistance to push the inside ski away from the stance ski. The tipping force is (as I understand it) the whole foundation of PMTS technique. No tipping - no PMTS.

Next step is to use counterbalancing to put more weight on the outside ski than the inside ski, but you still have to maintain that tipping force with the inside ski while you are doing it. If they fall into a wedge, ask them, "did you keep that tipping force throughout the turn?" Most of the time the answer will be No.

(PLEASE, PLEASE, correct me if I am way off base with this approach. Not an instructor, novice skier. Thanks.)

[Max_501]

(PLEASE, PLEASE, correct me if I am way off base with this approach. Not an instructor, novice skier. Thanks.)

First we don't push or drive the knee!

Take a look at this and see what you think:

[h.harb]

Steering and driving the knee results in the consequences of tight hips, locked pelvis muscles and no CA and no CB, just look at the sequence of BB posted here. That's the PSIA mantra, steer your legs and drive your knee. PMTS is opposite, tip your inside foot and ski, and counter balance.

[cheesehead]

... That's the PSIA mantra, steer your legs and drive your knee. PMTS is opposite, tip your inside foot and ski, and counter balance.

I definitely said to tip the inside foot and counterbalance. The question is did I say to "drive your knee." And I really don't know the answer to that, first of all because I don't actually know what "drive your knee" means. I only took one PSIA lesson so I was never told to drive me knee. For me to know whether I am doing it or not I first have to know what it means.

I am not trying to put the burden on you all, but I certainly don't want to get the whole thing wrong if I am actually driving my knees.

If you tip the ski your knee has to move in the same direction. And many times in PMTS books and the forum it is stated that you have to put extra effort in tipping the free ski and much less effort in tipping the stance ski. That is how I try to ski and how I was suggesting to get the kids to experience it (the first demo I described has been shown to me by a PMTS instructor, the second demo is a published PMTS demo). I wasn't trying to make up anything new and/or outside of PMTS. But if that is driving the knee I better not do that. But, like I said, I don't know yet what the term means.

[Max_501]

Being a novice skier, the thing that really made this all work was realizing how much force you have to use to tip with that inside ski. You have to move your whole body with just that tipping motion.

Perhaps that is the source of your confusion. Inside foot tipping is the movement that gets the kinetic chain moving (and it continues to lead) but it doesn't need the large force you are describing. Start with the small muscles responsible for tipping to the LTE (and continue tipping) and momentum will do the heavy lifting. The only pushing you might feel would be when the ankles push/press against the inside of the boot.

The question is did I say to "drive your knee."

Yes. Pushing the knees and driving the knees is the same thing.

Another approach to that concept is the one outlined in ACBES 2, I think, where the stationary skier tries to pull the skis together and the instructor gives opposite resistance to push the inside ski away from the stance ski.

That is an inside foot management drill that is unrelated to the knee pushing drill you suggest.

And many times in PMTS books and the forum it is stated that you have to put extra effort in tipping the free ski and much less effort in tipping the stance ski.

Yes, because of the tendency for BTE dominance. But this has nothing to do with pushing the knees.

That is how I try to ski and how I was suggesting to get the kids to experience it (the first demo I described has been shown to me by a PMTS instructor, the second demo is a published PMTS demo).

As far as I know the knee pushing drill is not in any of the PMTS material and I've never seen a PMTS coach use it. In PMTS we don't push or drive the knees.

The incorrect focus on knee movement has been covered extensively on the forum. Here's an old post (2008):

Here we go again, HH says:

if you focus on lateral knee movement you will NEVER get it.

Exceptional skiing comes from using the feet, ankles and supporting it with the “Compete Upper body”, (counter acting and counter balancing) supporting movements. It has nothing to do with knees, CM focus or leg extension.

It has everything to do with tipping, flexing, and supporting upper body movements.

Here's another good thread to read:

More tipping, it's not about the size of your muscles