Fist day on the snow yesterday Using PMTS-Good Day!

[cheesehead]

Thanks for the suggestions. It was 10 degrees on Saturday And I put on an extra layer of thermal underwear top and bottom and an extra sweatshirt up top. My feet got a little cold but not numb. I will try out the hard wool socks. Maybe later try the intuition liners Doing the same thing releasing tipping now trying to weight the outside ski without extending (in oyher words counterbalancing) we got 6" of nice light snow. Wisconsin powder!

[Basil j]

Basil, have your daughter get some photos or video of your skiing for us to r̶i̶p̶ ̶a̶p̶a̶r̶t̶ offer suggestions......

Counter acting is turning the hips & trunk toward the outside of the turn. It is very important in its own right, and it facilitates counter balancing. We can bend forward more than we can bend sideways, so turning the hips to the outside helps the bend to the outside. Use the hip-o-meter. It illustrates counter acting for you very well.



The only time I had cold feet was with factory liners in my Nordica Doberman boots. They were thin with great responsiveness but not great insulation. For the core, the Mountain Hardware Compressor jacket with 120 gm. "Thermal Q" polyfill insulation is surprisingly warm for its thickness.

I am skiing the 8 days over xmas week and will try to get some video in that week.

[Basil j]

So we got about 14" last night and we headed out today hoping for a powder day. Unfortunately everything was pretty tracked out by 10:00am and Canon was skiing like a big bump field for the most part except for a few trails that were just chopped up powder. I took the wife & kids over to easy terrain around 11:00 and continued working on 1 & 2 footed releases, Strong Phantom moves with as much tipping of the inside foot as comfortable, pull back of the inside ski and and inside hand leading into all the turns. I have been working on these movements with the kids, but This was my wife's first day using these moves and she was enjoying learning some new movements. We were skiing on the same trails as the ski instructors, who were doing their training in groups, and I heard several times as we skied past them," see those guys, they ski too narrow, they are skiing old school on 1 ski" "open up your stances, use your gear", they would bark as we skied by them. I know half of them so I just chuckled and kept going, working on the PMTS movements . My wife heard them and she immediately started questioning what we were doing and she was concerened that we were practicing outdated movements. I asked her if she saw any improvement in the kids skiing this season. I have only had them out for 3 days and she had noticed that they have improved more in the last 3 days than they did all season last season. I said, "have some faith, you will see continued improvement as they learn all the major PMTS movements. They are already more solid on their skis this year and their journey has just started."
My question is to all who have had kids go through Junior programs., Should I tell the coaches that we are learning PMTS , or just keep doing it on my own and not say anything? I don't want to confuse the kids, but when they perform the movements correctly, they feel immediate success and I don't want to impede their progress.
Suggestions from any otherPMTS parents? it is amazing that now I am focused on PMTS, the ski school looks like it has very little to offer except follow the leader.

[Max_501]

I took the wife & kids over to easy terrain around 11:00 and continued working on 1 & 2 footed releases, Strong Phantom moves with as much tipping of the inside foot as comfortable, pull back of the inside ski and and inside hand leading into all the turns.

The bad news is that there is very little chance that your wife or kids are ready for two footed releases which are one of the most advanced drills in PMTS. If you jump to these too early the skier will use heavy doses of internal rotation to get the job done.

My question is to all who have had kids go through Junior programs., Should I tell the coaches that we are learning PMTS , or just keep doing it on my own and not say anything? I don't want to confuse the kids, but when they perform the movements correctly, they feel immediate success and I don't want to impede their progress.

If you want to debate technique with race coaches you better be prepared with pictures and video. Even then they probably won't see the Essentials that are so obvious to a PMTS student. When my kids came up through two different race programs I tried speaking with the coaches about what the WC racers were doing. I quickly learned to keep my mouth shut. Long story short, they will hold onto the USSA/PSIA teaching methods regardless of what the WC racers are doing. The guys I spoke with honestly believed that an extension at transition and pivot slips were mandatory skills for racers. In the end I just told my kids to ignore their coaches. The coaches would be yelling at them to extend, extend, extend and my kids would be doing a massive retraction.

[Basil j]

Thanks for the advice Max. I will probably keep working with them on my own. We were doing the 2 footed releases to day just like in the video, slowly and one release at a time.It was really helping them feel the ease of releasing the edges simply by tipping the inside ski and letting the skis come around on their own. It was a great way to help them feel balanced. We did not link any together, but simply worked on one release at a time. I did not see that a 2 footed release would be a wrong move to bring into the equation. I want to get them away from stepping onto their new skis. They have been working on the Phantom move and I felt that the release movements would help them understand the power of the phantom move better. If not working on edge release movements, what would you suggest? They are very comfortable on their skis and are like little sponges, eager to learn improve. It s amazing what a shot of enthusiasm just introducing the phantom move has done for them.

[Max_501]

We did not link any together, but simply worked on one release at a time. I did not see that a 2 footed release would be a wrong move to bring into the equation.

As I said, chances are very good that they are using rotation unless you have worked through book 1 and the 3 chapters in book 2 that come before the TFR and mastered the concepts along the way.

If not working on edge release movements, what would you suggest?

Follow the progression outlined in Books 1 and 2. Don't progress until they have mastered the concepts covered in the chapter you are working on. If they have mastered all the content from Book 1 then they already have an excellent release.

Unfortunately fast forwarding is a surefire way to mess things up.

[skifastDDS]

We were skiing on the same trails as the ski instructors, who were doing their training in groups, and I heard several times as we skied past them," see those guys, they ski too narrow, they are skiing old school on 1 ski" "open up your stances, use your gear", they would bark as we skied by them.

That's hilarious. I hope those guys are out there when I come ski with you.

[Basil j]

Unfortunately I only have book 2 but I have video 1 & 2 so I have been following the progression laid out in the videos. I may just bite the bullet and order essentials since there seems to be much more to this than what is in the videos. Maybe I will get a clearer picture of the progressions that way. the videos are great but there is a lot discussed on this forum that is not clear from the videos.

[Max_501]

Unfortunately I only have book 2 but I have video 1 & 2 so I have been following the progression laid out in the videos. I may just bite the bullet and order essentials since there seems to be much more to this than what is in the videos. Maybe I will get a clearer picture of the progressions that way. the videos are great but there is a lot discussed on this forum that is not clear from the videos.

If you are serious about teaching your wife and kids I'd suggest ordering the PMTS Instructors Manual which you could use in place of Book 1 (although I still think its worth having the full set of Harald's writing as there are golden nuggets of info in each book). The instructors manual is a gateway to masterful ski instruction.

I am working on a "New to PMTS - START HERE" post which I hope to have ready before the end of the month. You might want to read and watch that material with your wife as it should help to remove her doubts. Many of us have been there before, especially with kids enrolled in a formal TTS system (race or ski school).

While the ACBAES 1 and 2 videos are great they are not a complete replacement for Books 1 and 2 (that said, if you can't find a copy of Book 1 a careful study of video 1 may suffice, with info from the forum as a supplement, as long as you master each step before moving forward. Note that most people jump right to the phantom move which is a very simple looking compound movement. They then perform it incorrectly because they have not mastered the individual building blocks that make up the compound phantom movement). Essentials is awesome and every serious student should have the Essentials book and the full set of DVDs, but Essentials is not a teaching progression.

Right now the biggest boost you could make is taking some video. If you don't want to post it on the forum, no problem. Just send a PM to me or one of the other coaches and we'll take a look for you.

[Basil j]

Max you make some good points. I just purchased the instructor manual and CD. I think If I have a more definitive guide/roadmap, I will keep the teaching of the movements in the right sequence. The kids & I did not jump into the phantom move right away. We worked on the exercises as outlined in video #1, but because they are both avid skiers, they were eager to jump into the phantom move pretty quickly. The 10 year old is getting it much better at it than my 6 year old, so the manual may have some good exercises to help me back it up a bit with him and restart more slowly, but being a boy he wants to keep up with big sis. Greg (Skifast) & I are hooking up over the next week or so and he said he would give me some honest critique and do some video, so I am excited to meet up with another PMTS skier who is seasoned and experienced. The movements I have been working on seem to feel right, but to your point I need to video and take a hard look at my progression and nip any problems in the bud.as always I appreciate your input and perspective, knowing that you were once where I am right now, and obviously your efforts have paid off.

[Skiasaurus Rex]

Basilj,

1. Really, a group of clinicing instructors actually called you out while you were free skiing with your family?? You should have stopped, found out who the clinic leader was and told them the value of their 'free' advice. If nothing else, I would have made a case about mountain employees harassing or 'impinging on the paid enjoyment' of paying guests. Seriously, that ain't cool. Mountain Management (even at a state run place) would have been down on it as well.

2.Have you watched and gotten a real sense of what the Cannon Race Team teaches yet? It is a pretty well-known and regionally successful club with a long history and at least one pretty successful racer you might of heard of (though, I guess his signature legacy is how much he defiantly ignored his coaches…). Still, as a learning skier, it would appear pretty presumptuous to start telling Cannon's race coaches how to teach, or what you think is the best methods, or that you (a newer skier) intend to teach your kid something entirely different from the race coaches. Especially before you a. get a sense of what they teach and b. Get a better handle on the technique you are trying to acquire. Max's advice on keeping a low profile is good advice. Most clubs demand a high degree of parent volunteerism anyway, so you'll get to know the scene pretty well by the end of the season and can make better assessments of the club culture then.

3. Hey, Newbie…you didn't get to the mountain until 10:00am on a powder weekend day?? 14 inch cold storms in December at Cannon are a treat, get a better alarm clock and drill sergeant the family through an early morning routine on special days (been there). Of course, when you dial in your ski technique, you'll find expert powder stashes (and exploit them) later and later in the day…another (and maybe the most important) reason to get your pmts skills dialed.

[Basil j]

Basilj,

1. Really, a group of clinicing instructors actually called you out while you were free skiing with your family?? You should have stopped, found out who the clinic leader was and told them the value of their 'free' advice. If nothing else, I would have made a case about mountain employees harassing or 'impinging on the paid enjoyment' of paying guests. Seriously, that ain't cool. Mountain Management (even at a state run place) would have been down on it as well.
wow..
If you read my post you would have seen that I mentioned I knew some of the instructors, so I took it as friendly razzing. I have brought up PMTS to some of them in the past and the response has always been the same. "what is PMTS"? So I don't bother anymore. I have been asked to join the ski school and teach several times in the past and feel that my own skiing falls short of where I would want it to be if I was an instructor.

2.Have you watched and gotten a real sense of what the Cannon Race Team teaches yet? It is a pretty well-known and regionally successful club with a long history and at least one pretty successful racer you might of heard of (though, I guess his signature legacy is how much he defiantly ignored his coaches…). Still, as a learning skier, it would appear pretty presumptuous to start telling Cannon's race coaches how to teach, or what you think is the best methods, or that you (a newer skier) intend to teach your kid something entirely different from the race coaches. Especially before you a. get a sense of what they teach and b. Get a better handle on the technique you are trying to acquire. Max's advice on keeping a low profile is good advice. Most clubs demand a high degree of parent volunteerism anyway, so you'll get to know the scene pretty well by the end of the season and can make better assessments of the club culture then.

My kids are not in the FSC program, which I understand is very good. They are in the junior developmental program, which is part of the ski school. My daughter is in "race prep'" which provides a race foundation with race Technique, but they don't actually race outside of their group. It is kind of in between FSC and the regular ski school for kids who are on the fence about full time racing. Since I started studying the PMTS movements, I now look for them in skiers & instructors, and outside of the FSC kids and coaches, I don't see much of it in the regular ski school.

3. Hey, Newbie…you didn't get to the mountain until 10:00am on a powder weekend day?? 14 inch cold storms in December at Cannon are a treat, get a better alarm clock and drill sergeant the family through an early morning routine on special days (been there). Of course, when you dial in your ski technique, you'll find expert powder stashes (and exploit them) later and later in the day…another (and maybe the most important) reason to get your pmts skills dialed.

I was actually there by 9:00am. I said it was tracked out by 10:00. I have been skiing for over 25 years. I am a newbie to PMTS not skiing, thank you very much. If you have ever read any of my prior posts, you would understand that besides getting my kids better instruction & technique, that I was learning PMTS because I am considering going back to night league racing after a very long layoff from racing and wanted to start fresh with what I see as superior technique. I am on my skis over 40 days a season and know Cannon & Mittersill very well as well as several other NE ski resorts. I ran a ski house at Killington for over 12 seasons. I actually met my wife at the Wobbly barn.

[Max_501]

Really, a group of clinicing instructors actually called you out while you were free skiing with your family??

No surprise at all. I've had similar experiences at other resorts. Instructors asking who I am and then implying that only ski school instructors have the legal right to teach on the mountain. I'd nicely explain that I'm working with my family and then they'd tell me I'm doing it wrong anyway. The narrow stance combined with a lift and tip was a magnet for unsolicited input. And when working on deep flexing drills I've had race coaches tell me I've got it backwards.

[Max_501]

I have been skiing for over 25 years. I am a newbie to PMTS not skiing, thank you very much. If you have ever read any of my prior posts, you would understand that besides getting my kids better instruction & technique, that I was learning PMTS because I am considering going back to night league racing after a very long layoff from racing and wanted to start fresh with what I see as superior technique. I am on my skis over 40 days a season and know Cannon & Mittersill very well as well as several other NE ski resorts. I ran a ski house at Killington for over 12 seasons. I actually met my wife at the Wobbly barn.

You deserve a huge round of applause for jumping into PMTS after 25 years of TTS skiing! How did you find us?

[Basil j]

Honestly Max,
I was surfing the web last winter and I saw some of Harald's Instructional Video clips and I was blown away by not only how beautiful a skier he is, but by the fact that he skis like that in his 60's. I am 53 next month, and although I am extremely fit, I am not delusional to the fact that at some point my body will start to let me down. Skiing is my passion and I want to continue to improve and ski well into my 60's as well as contribute to the development of my kids skiing. I had my kids late in life and want to be active with them and involved in their sports when they are in their teens and twenties. Oh, and I wanted to ski like Harald Harb! (or at least learn his system and give it my best shot!!!)
I always felt that my skiing was decent, but for the amount of time I spend on the snow, I always felt that I should be better. I feel like I have wasted many days ingraining inefficient movements into muscle memory.
Traditional instruction often left me confused, unimpressed and not really leading to any major improvements in my skiing. Every instructor had a different perspective, analysis and advice. Nothing consistent to build on and make me want to come back. When I struggle with my skiing, I can usually attribute it to being out of balance at some point in the run.
PMTS focuses on Balance & efficient movements. It is clear & concise and the more I read and watch the more sense it makes. Each movement provides an interconnected piece, building from a foundation from the feet up.
That is what has brought me here to this awesome forum, full of passionate skiers all sharing the same goal of becoming better skiers utilizing the PMTS system.
You asked