This is how it works for most skiers.

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This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby h.harb » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:16 pm

HH says:
"If You Commit to Nothing, You’ll Be Distracted by Everything"
: I didn't invent this statement, but it makes perfect sense. This reminds me of the skiers and instructors I see on the slopes. I saw many instructor groups out training, couldn't believe what they were doing. Most of the exercises they had to perform, were reinforcing mistakes that skiers already make. Pivoting, extending, skidding and lack of balance as a result. And you have heard the response when you mention this, "that's not what we teach". How can you not notice, that "pivot slips" reinforce skidding in students and instructors????????? Another response, I get, "we don't teach skidding". So why does everyone you teach skid their turns? It's truly amazing!

PMTS is a focused system and it creates not only precision in your movements, but mental preparation for every run and the right focus that brings results. I love the comments I get from many TTS instructors about PMTS, like: "I use some of your "Stuff, there are some good ideas." All that response demonstrates is that they don't get it. Learning skiing is not about "tricks" and "stuff", it's about a well thought out proven plan. Like I say in my bottom line, "Why mess around pasting weird, gross, maneuvers into with your skiing, when the most efficient movements are known"?

Time and money down the drain! And then reversing it, costs twice as much, time and money.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby skijim13 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:09 pm

Pivot slips,
Hockey stops
Wedge furns
Wide stance drill cowboy turns are primary drills of TTS systems
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:33 pm

I was thinking of the up movement and the effect on the arc. In one of HH videos, I think 2 of the Essentials, HH does an intentional up movement. In his voice over he says Diana laughed because the up movement was barely perceptible. HH explains that by eliminating the "dreaded up movement" the skier maintains the forward lean angle of the shins for good fore/aft balance in the next turn and keeps the shins parallel. The up movement makes the shins vertical putting the hips behind the ankles and often creates an A- frame, among other problems.
I watched a CSIA video. In it the instructor explains that the "extension as the skis go flat is necessary to re-centre so good fore aft can be maintained through out the turn". Why do you re-center, if you have good fore aft through out the turn? Why not keep the ankles behind the hips as HH explains because clearly in the video at the max height of the extension the skis are going faster than the body. The standard CSIA reason for an up movement at transition is to re-Center.
In my notes from one of HH's sessions, I have written that the up movement at transition creates more pressure on the skis so that the skier then flexes to reduce the pressure. As a result the skier extends when they should be flexing and flex when they should be extending. The result is a parked skier, inside and aft. This causes rotation in the upper body. At turn end the skis don't cut uphill so to get the body to the inside of the new turn the skier pushes off, getting the body to the inside.
We start the Short Turns Intensive camp tomorrow in ABasin. All of the essentials are required for BST. Flexion and extension, each at the correct point in the arc, will be among them.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:12 am

Since writing the above post I have now had one day with HH in the ST Intensive camp. My group of 4 are all veteran PMTS practioners and we had a journey yesterday that took us to the very core of PMTS methodology. Prior to yesterday I did not have a complete understanding of an up movement in the arc, at transition or in other points in the arc. We practiced the float that is mentioned in the videos and we saw how something like an edge set is an up movement. We worked on relaxation and letting the skis get into their arc while the body uses natural forces to get into position. Some of the movements we use to allow this to happen are not natural in the sense that those movements are not used outside of skiing but when they become intuitive the skiing flows without force. There is nothing like a camp for PMTS practitioners.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Basil j » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:56 pm

I envy you. consecutive training on the snow with video analysis is the best way to go.I hope to get out there to camp within the next year or so. Have fun!
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby skijim13 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:25 am

I hope to get to a camp next fall, it would be so much more easy if we lived closer and did not need to fly.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby HighAngles » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:42 am

Ihamilton - How about some more write-up about the inaugural Short Turns Intensive Camp? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:49 pm

This is in response to HighAngles request for some information on the Intensive Short Turns Camp. I found that camp to be extremely informative. As I mentioned I had no idea as to the total concept of extension.
My background is that I learned to ski under CSIA instruction and then became a CSIA instructor. In CSIA we are taught to extend, that is the primary reason why so many CSIA instructors are such poor skiers. I can extend anywhere in the turn. I am such a good extender that I can still extend using PMTS movements. A few months ago HH posted on this forum, or on his blog or perhaps in an email to me that when CSIA instructors first came to PMTS camps he realized that it would be a long journey to teach us how to ski well. I had to be un-taught what I had spent years of learning what to do to ski poorly, if that makes any sense.
The Intensive ST camp was set up to teach how to make ST. There are many forms of extension that I can do anywhere in the turn. Some of those forms are such that I don't even extend but I use muscles and create pressure in such a way as to create the same effect as extension. Extension in any form kills a ST. The camp was limited to 8 skiers and only Harald and Diane coached. In the chalk talk each morning, HH explained how extension, even using PmTS movements ruins a ST. We spent 1.5 days learning to tell when we extended and how to spot extension in skiers. The next 1.5 days were spent learning to tip our feet below the ankle without using any extension movements as helpers. It was a great camp and I am a better skier for having been there.
After that camp I had 3 days of free skiing to prepare for Tech camp which started today. I used a lot of video and I feel I have a solid base of understanding of how to make ST.
Today, we spent the whole day learning how to CB. I can now sit on a bench, put a mitt under one butt cheek, tip my feet toward the mitt and lift my cheek so that the mitt can be taken out. That is a lot to teach a CSIA instructor. I am making progress. My extension movements seldom occur, I can tip below the ankles and I can properly tilt my pelvis while tipping my feet. The journey continues.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby HighAngles » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:45 pm

Ihamilton wrote:I am such a good extender that I can still extend using PMTS movements.

:lol:

Thanks for the information. Sounds like it was incredibly educational and I wish I would have been there. I have a very strong feeling that extension still lives in my turns - just not in the more obvious form we're used to seeing.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:23 am

In yesterdays talk Harald's topic was relaxation and using our skeleton not our muscles to take the load of our body weight and the pressure built up by the skis. That struck a chord with me. I spent a lot of time in the gym preparing for this years skiing. Before my trainer would let me lift weights I had to be able to perform the movements with proper relaxation and movements so that the skeleton would take the load of the weights not my joints or muscles. In the gym the method to relax my muscles was to properly inhale and exhale my breath. In class as we were doing our CB and really scrunching Diana had us exhale to allow our torso to relax and be more flexible. One of my colleagues was a real grunter, he really tried to us all of his strength to CB. When he learned the proper breathing his movements were so much easier and his range of motion was much larger. His skiing improved immediately. In the gym I learned that when I have a strong exhalation it engages the core abdominal muscles which are necessary for balance. In my own skiing I decided to use what I had learned in the gym and I exhaled at the points in the arc that Diana coached us to do, took a breath and continued to exhale as coached.. I felt myself relax, the skis had better grip and they turned with ease. I got better angles, quicker feet, better balance with less effort. I feel that the coaching in the gym has really helped me. The coaching on the hill is the best in the world.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby sgarrozzo » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:55 am

Ihamilton wrote:In yesterdays talk Harald's topic was relaxation and using our skeleton not our muscles to take the load of our body weight and the pressure built up by the skis. That struck a chord with me. I spent a lot of time in the gym preparing for this years skiing. Before my trainer would let me lift weights I had to be able to perform the movements with proper relaxation and movements so that the skeleton would take the load of the weights not my joints or muscles. In the gym the method to relax my muscles was to properly inhale and exhale my breath. In class as we were doing our CB and really scrunching Diana had us exhale to allow our torso to relax and be more flexible. One of my colleagues was a real grunter, he really tried to us all of his strength to CB. When he learned the proper breathing his movements were so much easier and his range of motion was much larger. His skiing improved immediately. In the gym I learned that when I have a strong exhalation it engages the core abdominal muscles which are necessary for balance. In my own skiing I decided to use what I had learned in the gym and I exhaled at the points in the arc that Diana coached us to do, took a breath and continued to exhale as coached.. I felt myself relax, the skis had better grip and they turned with ease. I got better angles, quicker feet, better balance with less effort. I feel that the coaching in the gym has really helped me. The coaching on the hill is the best in the world.




great experience Ih,
can I ask you what is the point at which you exhale?
Maybe at the end of the first third of the curve? :?
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:06 pm

Yes, and at transition.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby h.harb » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:27 pm

Thanks Irwin, nice reviews. You and G.Darst ought to get together and write a book from the student perspective.. Add a bunch of PMTS Forum quotes and you'll have a best seller.
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby sgarrozzo » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:55 am

Ihamilton wrote:Yes, and at transition.


Thanks Irwin,
so kind from you :D
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Re: This is how it works for most skiers.

Postby Ihamilton » Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:35 pm

In the intensive ST camp I rode up with Harald several times and we had discussions about the skiing learning curve and the 50/50 partnership between student and instructor in PMTS.
The learning curve in any activity is never straight up, although when we are feeling good we tend to think that our curve is straight up. Our discussions were what to do when the curve starts going down, when performance gets worse not better. Harald said that we have to embrace those dips to figure out what happened and solve the problem and then build on it. With the right coaching having a dip in performance can make the skier become better than before with the right attitude. The worse thing that one can do is to try to get to simple solutions, grasping for solutions instead of basic fundamentals and as performance continues to dip start getting frustrated and thinking "I suck".
On the partnership issue, in a class of 4, I could see how each student contributed to the coaches knowledge of how to teach. I have felt that I have contributed to their knowledge as they have brought me a long way.
In the tech camp I had a great Wednesday and I basically thought "I had it". Thursday comes a long and I can't perform like I did the day before. I thought the problem was in my hip position and the harder I tried to get back to where I was the day before, the poorer I skied. I was practising poor skiing as a result of a disconnect. On Friday morning, when I was thinking that I really suck, Harald came up to me and said that I had to go back to basics. What was I concentrating on? My hip position. Harald suggested that was the reason for the disconnect. In pmts, things go south if we forget tipping the feet. He said I might get it back in a day, or two, or three, but if I keep working on tipping it will come back and when I am connected I will be better than before. In class I was asked what drill I wanted to work on and following the club house advise I got, I decided to work on robo tipping, probably my weakest tipping drill as it shows all the errors I make when tipping. I got better at the drill. I worked on it again today. The Whistler camp starts Wednesday and Harald and Diana are here, Jay gets here tomorrow.
The journey continues.
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